Author: Vincent Diepeveen
Date: 18:15:56 08/29/99
Go up one level in this thread
I wonder why this position is in a testset for computers,
as when i analyzed the win here some years ago
i needed some 40 moves before
any evaluation of a computer could see it as a win.
that's 80 ply, as white king has to move a lot from one side
to another and such
On August 28, 1999 at 09:31:29, Howard Exner wrote:
>On August 27, 1999 at 19:20:49, Paulo Soares wrote:
>
>>On August 27, 1999 at 13:14:34, Howard Exner wrote:
>>
>>>On August 27, 1999 at 04:54:05, Howard Exner wrote:
>>>
>>>>On August 27, 1999 at 00:00:22, Paulo Soares wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On August 26, 1999 at 15:26:30, Howard Exner wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On August 26, 1999 at 05:20:10, Paulo Soares wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>1. c5 really wins? I have my doubts with the following variant: 1.c5 bxc5.
>>>>>>>I didn't still get to find a line that wins.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>2k5/p7/Pp1p1b2/1P1P1p2/2P2P1p/3K3P/5B2/8 w - -
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Paulo
>>>>>>
>>>>>>1. c5 bxc5 2. Be1 Kb8 3. Kc4 Kc8 4. Ba5 Bd4 5. Bd8 Be3 6. Bg5 Kc7 7. Kd3
>>>>>>Bc1 8. Bxh4 Bxf4 9. Bd8+ Kc8 10. h4 Be5 11. Ba5 Bg7 12. h5
>>>>>>
>>>>>>This sequence looks like it should win for white. If there's a better
>>>>>>sequence of moves maybe we can continue to work on it.
>>>>>
>>>>>Good line! I didn't get to find defense for black.
>>>>>I am not getting to find a winner endgame for
>>>>>white with the line below, in which black plays
>>>>>4...Kb8 instead of 4...Bd4.
>>>>
>>>>This is a tough one. I'll try some lines and report back.
>>>>I wonder if the author of this test, Frederic Louguet, has
>>>>the solution somewhere? Also I read another reply to your post saying
>>>>that the solution is a long one but no lines were given.
>>>>
>>>>>Paulo
>>>>>
>>>>>[Round ""?]
>>>>>[White ""?]
>>>>>[Black ""?]
>>>>>[Result " *"]
>>>>>[Annotator " Soares,P "]
>>>>>[SetUp " 1 "]
>>>>>[FEN " 2k5/p7/Pp1p1b2/1P1P1p2/2P2P1p/3K3P/5B2/8 w - - 0 1 "]
>>>>>
>>>>>1. c5 bxc5 2. Be1 Kb8 3. Kc4 Kc8 4. Ba5 Kb8 5. b6 axb6
>>>>>6. Bxb6 Bd4 7. a7+ Kb7 8. Bc7 Kxa7 9. Bxd6 Kb6
>>>
>>>Here are some lines that look promising:
>>>
>>>
>>>1. c5 bxc5 2. Be1 Kb8 3. Ba5 Kc8 4. b6 axb6 5. Bxb6 Kb8 6. a7+ Kb7 7. Bc7
>>>Kxa7 8. Bxd6 Kb6 9. Be5 Be7 10. Kc4 Bf8 11. Bf6 Bd6 12. Bd8+ Kb7 13. Bxh4
>>>Bxf4 14. Kxc5 Kc7 15. Bf2 Bh6 16. h4 Kd7 17. h5 Bg5 18. Be1 Bh6 19. Kd4
>>>Bg7+ 20. Kc4 Bh6 21. Bb4 Be3 22. Kd3 Bg5 23. Bd2 f4 24. Ke4 f3 25. Be3
>>>Kd6 26. Kxf3 Bf6 27. Ke4 Bg7 28. h6
>>>
>>>1. c5 bxc5 2. Be1 Kb8 3. Ba5 Kc8 4. b6 axb6 5. Bxb6 Kb8 6. a7+ Kb7 7. Bc7
>>>Be7 8. Bb8 Bf8 9. Kc3 Ka8 10. Kc4 Kb7 11. Kb5 Be7 12. Bc7 Kxa7 13. Kc6
>>>Ka6 14. Kd7 Bf8 15. Ke8 Kb7 16. Ba5 Bh6 17. Bd2 c4 18. Kd7 c3 19. Be3 Bf8
>>>20. Ke6 Ka6 21. Kxf5 Kb5 22. Ke6 Kc4 23. f5 Kd3 24. Bg5 c2 25. f6
>>
>>
>>I think that your first line it's bad for black, because 7...Kxa7 seemed
>>wrong. However I didn't find win for white after 7 ...Be7.
>>20 ...c2, seems to be a good move.
>>I am analyzing the position whit Hiarcs 7.32 + hashtables(only from
>>CD), and you?
>
>I use Rebel 10 to help me go through games. Your analysis below
>has many improvements for black. This got me thinking that maybe
>we are pushing the white pawn on a6 too soon. This ending is all
>about tempos and white having the better king position as well as better
>pawn placement. It looks like there should be a win here. How about these
>alternative lines:
>
>A.1. c5 bxc5 2. Be1 Kb8 3. Ba5 Kc8 4. b6 axb6 5. Bxb6 Kb8 6. Kc4 Bd4 7. Bd8
>Be3 8. Bxh4 Bxf4 9. Bf6 Bg3 10. h4 f4 11. Kd3 f3 12. Ke3 f2 13. Ke2 Ka7
>14. h5 Bf4 15. Bg7 Kxa6 16. Kxf2 Kb5 17. Kf3 Bg5 18. h6
>
>B.1. c5 bxc5 2. Be1 Kb8 3. Ba5 Kc8 4. b6 axb6 5. Bxb6 Kb8 6. Kc4 Kc8 7. Kb5
>Kb8 8. Kc6 Be7 9. Kd7 Bf8 10. Ke6
>
>By sharing different lines we might come up with a possible solution.
>
>>
>>[Event "?"]
>>[Site "?"]
>>[Date "????.??.??"]
>>[Round "?"]
>>[White "Analises"]
>>[Black "?"]
>>[Result "*"]
>>[Annotator "Soares,P"]
>>[SetUp "1"]
>>[FEN "2k5/p7/Pp1p1b2/1P1P1p2/2P2P1p/3K3P/5B2/8 w - - 0 1"]
>>[PlyCount "48"]
>>
>>1. c5 bxc5 2. Be1 Kb8 3. Ba5 Kc8 4. b6 axb6 5. Bxb6 Kb8 6. a7+ Kb7 7. Bc7 Be7
>>8. Bb8 Bf8 9. Kc3 Ka8 10. Kc4 Kb7 11. Kb5 Be7 12. Bc7 Kxa7 13. Kc6 Ka6 (13...
>>c4 {!?}) 14. Kd7 Bf8 15. Ke8 Kb7 16. Ba5 Bh6 17. Bd2 c4 18. Kd7 c3 19. Be3 Bf8
>>(19... c2 {!?}) 20. Ke6 Ka6 (20... c2 21. Kxf5 Bg7 22. Bc1 (22. Kg6 Bd4 23. Bc1
>>Kb6 24. f5 Kc5 25. f6 Bxf6 26. Kxf6 Kxd5 {=}) (22. Ke6 Bb2 23. Kxd6 c1=Q 24.
>>Bxc1 Bxc1 25. f5 Kc8 26. Ke6 Kd8 {=}) 22... Kb6 23. Ke6 Kc5 24. f5 Be5 25. f6
>>Bxf6 26. Kxf6 Kxd5 27. Kf5 Kd4 28. Kf4 (28. Kg4 Ke4 29. Kxh4 Kf3 30. Kg5 d5 31.
>>h4 d4 32. h5 d3 33. h6 Ke2 {=}) 28... Kd3 29. Kf3 d5 30. Kf2 d4 31. Kf3 Kc3 32.
>>Ke4 d3 33. Ke3 Kc4 {=}) 21. Kxf5 Kb5 22. Ke6 Kc4 23. f5 Kd3 24. Bg5 c2 {
>>f6[Event "?"]} *
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