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Subject: Re: The "Endless Tourney "- Your Reply, James"

Author: Sune Larsson

Date: 00:25:00 09/04/99

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On September 04, 1999 at 02:46:52, Terry Ripple wrote:

>On September 04, 1999 at 01:21:20, James Robertson wrote:
>
>>On September 04, 1999 at 01:03:26, Terry Ripple wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>When i run engine vrs engine matches i set it that each engine plays white and
>>>black in each opening, this way it totally makes it more fair!
>>>
>>>Regards,Terry
>>
>>I think not. It _will_ skew the results.
>>
>>For instance, say you pick the King's Indian and make both programs play it. It
>>is a very hard opening for a program to play because black accepts a big space
>>deficit in return for a kingside attack. Most (all?) programs don't understand
>>this and as a result white has a _big_ advantage. So if you play two games
>>between two engines, white has a good chance of winning both, even if one engine
>>is a lot stronger than the other. Ditto for all Gambits and even a lot of other
>>openings that 'seem' equal (and maybe for humans are).
>>
>>Maybe you pick a very tactical opening, or an opening that revolves around
>>kingside attack. Some engines are worse tactically than others, but rely on
>>their book to avoid tactical positions. This time, instead of the games being
>>skewed in favor of a certain color, they are skewed in favor of a certain
>>engine.
>>
>>My program's book is tailored to its needs, and fits its style. To separate the
>>two will result in a _big_ decrease in playing strength.
>>
>>James
>---------
>
>Hi James,
>  I thought about this and i believe that you have a very good point which i
>never really thought about! So what you are saying is if engine A should choose
>e4 and then engine B chooses d5 (Chosen frequently by CM6000)and it now leads
>into the Center Counter which CM6000 likes to play and now the next game i
>force engine A with black to play that exact line of the Center Counter, then
>this might not be tailored toward its style of play like CM6000 likes!
>  I thought the top chess engines are "tactical monsters" and that a chess game
>is won by 99% tactics! So, are you saying that not all programmers are selecting
>their opening books based on this because they programmed a style in to their
>program to play more positionaly and choose closed lines of play rather than the
>open tactical lines, perhaps because their program is not as strong a tactical
>player?
>  I have been playing a match between Hiarcs 7.32 and Crafty 16.13 (Single CPU)
>with a time control of 40/120 + 30/60. The match will randomly select a opening
>and then it will play that same opening again with colors reversed. I'am using
>the opening book of Hiarcs for both. Now i know that Hiarcs has more position
>sense than Crafty but the opening book don't seem to be hindering Crafty in the
>least because it's is doing quite well so far in the match. They played a total
>of 8 games so far with a score favoring Hiarcs 5 to 3. I know this is not nearly
>enough games to make an accurate judgement but it's a start and i'am not a
>rating agency trying to prove who's the best but only doing this for the
>enjoyment of playing over the games afterward and posting here for others who
>might enjoy the games. You can still enjoy some beautiful moves from the engine
>matches, even if they aren't optimized for their maximum strength!
>
>Best regards,
>Terry

 Think you have some good points here,Terry! As for autoplaying - "I'm not
 a rating agency" - "doing this for the enjoyment of playing over the games
 afterward." I agree totally! And it´s a nice and entertaining way of widening
 one's understanding of chess.

 Regards
 Sune



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