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Subject: Re: To Bob: Crafty, move ordering with SEE

Author: Alessandro Damiani

Date: 00:48:31 09/07/99

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On September 07, 1999 at 02:58:47, Bruce Moreland wrote:

>On September 07, 1999 at 02:41:02, Alessandro Damiani wrote:
>
>>Hi Bob!
>>
>>Some time back you wrote here on CCC about the move ordering of Crafty. I don't
>>want to download all archive files, so I ask you now.
>>
>>If I remember it right, you use a SEE to order captures in the search. The
>>negative captures (SwapOff(.)<0) are placed after ALL the other moves?
>>
>>I thought, the "state of the art" is:
>>
>>1. transposition table move
>>2. positive captures (MVV/LVA)
>>3. killer 1
>>4. killer 2
>>5. counter move
>>6. rest of captures (MVV/LVA)
>>7. history moves
>>8. rest of moves (static ordering)
>>
>>I define "positive capture" this way:
>>Val(aggressor)<Val(victim) OR NOT Attacked(opponent, move.to).
>>
>>You said that the SEE gives you a better move ordering when the negative
>>captures are put after number 8?
>>
>>Thank you!
>>
>>Alessandro (new E-mail address since today: adamiani@econophone.ch)
>
>I am not Bob, but I have found independently that it does.  It is worth trying
>both ways.
>
>This orders "sacrifices" behind non-capturing moves, but most losing captures
>are crap.  If you no winning captures in a position, one losing capture, and a
>bunch of random moves that do nothing, you probably have a better chance at a
>cutoff if you do one of the other moves.  Also, if you start capturing, you tend
>to capture again at the next ply, which means you do more nodes.
>
>Speculation on my part.
>
>bruce

Hi Bruce!

Qualified answers are always welcome! But why "[...] It is worth trying
>both ways. [...]"? This move ordering question concerns captures. Is one way not statistically better than the other?

Since most losing captures are "crap" the variations they belong to are cut-off
by forward pruning. Of course the cut-off is three plies after the losing
capture. Are not most quiet moves "crap", too?

I have developed a new quiescence search. Move ordering influences the
performance of it.

Alessandro



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