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Subject: Re: Interesting mate test for hashing

Author: Alessandro Damiani

Date: 15:01:30 09/11/99

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On September 11, 1999 at 17:58:59, James Robertson wrote:

>On September 11, 1999 at 17:54:55, Alessandro Damiani wrote:
>
>>On September 11, 1999 at 15:56:10, Ed Schröder wrote:
>>
>>>On September 11, 1999 at 15:42:03, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On September 11, 1999 at 11:42:29, Ed Schröder wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>Posted by Robert Hyatt on September 11, 1999 at 10:19:19:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>In Reply to: Re: Interesting mate test for hashing posted by Ed Schröder on
>>>>>>September 11, 1999 at 01:43:12:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>On September 11, 1999 at 01:43:12, Ed Schröder wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Do not underestimate the idea that in case there is no bestmove from the
>>>>>>>hash table you do a full static evaluation of all nodes first and based
>>>>>>>on that you pick the bestmove as being the first move you are going to
>>>>>>>search for this (new) depth. The very early Rebel's (1981) worked that
>>>>>>>way and I remember (although the system is very time consuming) it was
>>>>>>>superior to all other systems I tried.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I'm not underestimating it.  I was simply saying that this approach can
>>>>>>be applied when the position is encountered and there is no 'best move'
>>>>>>in the hash table.  Rather than doing it when the hash entry is stored,
>>>>>>and we are not even sure that this hash entry will ever be used again or
>>>>>>that it won't be overwritten before it is needed.
>>>>>
>>>>>Right.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>I later removed the system because hash tables + bestmove was more powerful
>>>>>>>at least for Rebel. But I wouldn't exclude the possibility such a system
>>>>>>>can have a positive effect on the speed of the search.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Actually I didn't remove the system but I replaced it with a faster one
>>>>>>>that is:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>- generate all legal moves;
>>>>>>>- for all moves do a (very) quick evaluation;
>>>>>>>- sort all moves based on the quick evaluation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>This (move ordering) system (for Rebel) is still superior.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Ed
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Do you use killers, history, etc?
>>>>>
>>>>>Just the normal stuff.
>>>>>
>>>>>Order...
>>>>>
>>>>>- hash table move
>>>>>- winning captures (ordered by expected material gain)
>>>>>- promotion
>>>>>- equal captures (QxQ etc)
>>>>>- killers (4 of them)
>>>>>- remaining moves ordered by the intelligent move generator
>>>>>
>>>>>The Killer History from Jonathan Schaefer gave no improvement for me.
>>>>>
>>>>>Ed
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>It probably won't help if you keep 4 killers.  I didn't find any improvement
>>>>in Cray Blitz either... but I did even more with killers.  I tried the current
>>>>ply killers then the killers from _other_ plies if they were legal... adding
>>>>history did nothing for me...  I probably ought to re-check Crafty again as it
>>>>might be extra overhead for nothing now...
>>>
>>>I use 2 killers from the current ply (that's the normal way) and the 2 from
>>>2 plies back. The latter gave me 5%.
>>>
>>>Ed
>>
>>I am surprised: history doesn't help? I think that the static ordering is good
>>enough then. Perhaps history is good for those with a bad static ordering, like
>>me?
>>
>>Alessandro
>
>History didn't help me at all either. I just ended up with a lot lower NPS....
>
>James

Am I the last one with history heuristic here? :-)

Alessandro



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