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Subject: Re: PREDICTION: GM's can draw 50% of games or more at 5 minutes vs comps if?

Author: odell hall

Date: 11:27:19 09/14/99

Go up one level in this thread


On September 14, 1999 at 10:10:07, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On September 14, 1999 at 01:45:21, odell hall wrote:
>
>>On September 13, 1999 at 22:11:25, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On September 13, 1999 at 20:01:23, Ricardo Gibert wrote:
>>>
>>>>On September 13, 1999 at 19:50:54, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On September 13, 1999 at 19:41:14, Ricardo Gibert wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On September 13, 1999 at 19:08:22, Bruce Moreland wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On September 13, 1999 at 19:06:01, Charles Unruh wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>GM's can draw 50% of games or more at 5 minutes vs comps if that is their goal
>>>>>>>>i.e to draw. I say this because by taking said strategy i have been able to draw
>>>>>>>>about 15-20% of my games against comps and i'm just recently an expert.
>>>>>>>>Anti-computer play really pays the bills when doing this.  Most progs seem to
>>>>>>>>want draws anyway, especially Genius.  Now this is a bit contrary to how one
>>>>>>>>should play to get a draw vs humans, but we aren't talking about humans here :).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I would be happy to take you up on this.  Please email me if you want to arrange
>>>>>>>a time, and we can do this on ICC.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Some GM's can do OK at 5 0, but there are a lot who will lose every game of a
>>>>>>>ten-game match, I think.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>bruce
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I've had similar experiences on ICC. I seem to be able to score more than my
>>>>>>fair share of draws against the computer programs playing there. If I try to win
>>>>>>I get "embarassed". But when I play to draw, the games I've been successful (5 3
>>>>>>blitz unrated) at have followed 1 of 2 patterns:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>1) One of the crafty clones has a penchant for unsound gambits (Englund gambit
>>>>>>with f7-f6). I play solidly with a caro pawn structure and exchange down to an
>>>>>>ending, which I draw.
>>>>>>2) I play an exchange sac, which computer programs do not cope with as well as
>>>>>>they should. They don't understand the importance of activating their rook. One
>>>>>>game I almost won, but I screwed up and allowed counterplay and had to force a
>>>>>>draw.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I'm 2411 on ICC. My best score in one day was 2 draws out of 4 games if I
>>>>>>remember correctly. I feel pretty sure these programs are easier to draw than
>>>>>>GMs.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I'm with Bruce here.  at 5 0 draws are probably hopeless.  with an increment,
>>>>>the chances go up...  but if you are expecting your opponent to play a bogus
>>>>>opening and then draw it, look out.  Not _all_ clones (and certainly not the
>>>>>"real mccoy") play gambits...  except for those that are reasonably sound, like
>>>>>the Evans, etc...
>>>>>
>>>>>I'd be happy to let you try your luck with 'crafty' on ICC or FICS if you want,
>>>>>as it is always interesting to see if I have problems I don't know of.  But you
>>>>>probably want to talk to IM Kim Commons or Brian Hartman, first.  Kim
>>>>>particularly plays for Draws vs Crafty and he is not real successful at doing
>>>>>so at blitz time controls...
>>>>
>>>>Type "search slo-mo blackdragon" at ICC. I score +1 -2 =1. I failed to remember
>>>>I had won a game when I wrote my previous post. If you go over the games, you
>>>>will see how effective my solid approach is and how unlucky I was that I did not
>>>>do better! I will try to figure out the names of some of the other comps I've
>>>>played. One was a CSTAL account, but I can't remmeber the name of the handle. I
>>>>thought all the games I played were 5 3, but I was mistaken. I've played faster
>>>>time limits, apparently.
>>>
>>>
>>>As I said, 'blackdragon' is unknown.  It is an old version on slow hardware.
>>>If you'd like to try the 'real mccoy' for a match, unrated, let me know.  It can
>>>be set up easily...
>>>
>>>If you aren't an IM, your chances of winning a blitz game are essentially zero.
>>>At least a real crafty, on real hardware, with reasonable book, and not
>>>intentionally weakened...  It is _very_ difficult for IM players to beat it,
>>>whether the game is standard where they have their best chances, or blitz where
>>>it just doesn't lose many games vs GM players, and hardly any any vs IM
>>>players...
>>>
>>>But it is an easy hypothesis to test if you'd like...
>>
>>
>>Try your crafty against Alexander Morovich  A-moro(icc) I bet crafty would have
>>his hands full or get spanked, I am speaking of Standard time Game in 15
>
>
>Do you think he is substantially better than (a) Yasser Seirawan (b) Gata Kamsky
>(c) Walter Browne  (d) most other GMs there?  IE Shirov, etc?  Game in 15 won't
>cut it for GM players.  I have played dozens of such games and can't recall
>losing any.  Game/30 gets a little more interesting, but I haven't seen Crafty
>lose many of those (it also doesn't play many of those except against GMs that
>ask to play it as guest to try something different in an opening.)
>
>If you know him and want to ask him to play a match, I'm game.  I have matched
>him a couple of times and he has declined.  :)
>
>I don't think he particularly likes 'computers'... IMHO...
>\



   I have seen him Tear Sierwan to shreds on ICC, he wins the majority of games,
The reason I feel he would do so well against crafty, is that in the recent
frankfurt tournament he seemed to have little problems with fritz6 which ran on
a super fast machine, I assume that being from the "younger" generation of
granmasters he probally has much expierence against computers, although I don't
understand why he never plays computers on ICC, Perhaps because he is there to
play humans only, and perfers to play computers at home.



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