Author: James T. Walker
Date: 18:27:34 09/18/99
Go up one level in this thread
On September 18, 1999 at 18:37:49, Ed Schröder wrote: >On September 18, 1999 at 15:45:15, James T. Walker wrote: > >>On September 18, 1999 at 13:34:19, Thorsten Czub wrote: >> >>>On September 18, 1999 at 12:35:33, blass uri wrote: >>> >>>>I see that the first 10 moves of chess system tal were the same in spite of the >>>>fact that it lost. >>>>Do things like this happen to tal in games that are played manually. >>>> >>>>Uri >>> >>>CStal saves learning files into a directory called book. >>>these learning files should change the game. >>>as you have seen, the learning gives priority even over book moves >>>as we have seen in the example with the 3.f4 line. >>>maybe the autoplayer stops cstal from saving the learn files. >>>I don't know what this autoplayer does. I am not an expert in cheating. >>>all i know is that the results the autoplayer produces are very different >>>from the results i get in manually played games. so >>>WHY should i use a device that influences the outcome negatively against >>>my favourite program ? >>>When i am playing manually, i can be sure that the machines are not connected >>>anyway, no cable, no contact. this way i can be sure nobody manipulates. >>>This is the reason i play the games manually. >> >>When you are playing games with auto232 _Y_0_U_ have no way to manipulate the >>games including choosing a favorite opening. > >It's not so simple, consider a few points... > >#1. Instead of the move send weird stuff to the other PC as a result >the other PC will crash. Do that in case your score is below -1.xx. >Don't do it in every game. *********** I've very little incidents of programs crashing using the auto232. It happened more often when I first got the Fritz/Junior/Nimzo programs. As far as I can tell most all of that stuff has been fixed. I have noticed no pattern as to when this happens with any particular program losing. I have often played 100 blitz games in one day without a single crash using auto232. ************ > >#2. Let your own program crash when you are down in score. Don't do >it every game. > ******** Same as above ******** >#3. Send the "move now" command to the other PC after say 10 seconds >in a 60/60 or 40/120 game. Hide it a little, nobody will notice. > ********* Why would you allow the other computer to make your program move except on the first move? Isn't it possible to prevent this in your program? Can you not specify what commands your program will accept from the auto232 and when? ******* >I have not the impression it currently happens but is all possible >if a programmer wants so. > >About books... > >You can easily recognize when the opponent is out of book simply by >checking the opponent response time. With this information you can >recognize the opponent. Think about this for a while. I have tried >it for my own curiosity and it simply works. Now you can do nice >things in case you know the opponent. Is it happening already? I >don't know but it can be done and quite easily. > ******** I'm sure you are correct but you would need to know a lot about the other programs book. Considering Rebel has over 30,000 variations in book I think. ******** >This whole auto232 thing is so fragile that I can imagine people >don't want to touch it any longer. > >Ed Schroder ************ Thanks for your comments Ed. You are one of my Hero's and I respect your opinion. It just seems to me that there are plenty of people with enough knowledge about programs/programming in general that if this were being done it could be proven. Especially if it is being done to the point where results like Thorsten is getting can be turned into the results I am getting. So far, I have played 8 games of CSTal-2 vs Crafty (2-6) and 5 games of Cstal-2 vs Hiarcs 7.32 (0-5) all at 40/2. So my 2-11 score would require quite a lot of cheating if it really should be like 10-3 favor CSTal-2. Yes I know the sample is still small and very few people here are interested anyway. I'm finished with this discussion now since it is a waste of time. Regards, Jim Walker ************* > > >>When you play the games manually >>Nobody but YOU can manipulate the games. That's the major difference. >>Jim Walker
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