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Subject: Re: How do you represent chess boards in your chess programms

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 22:25:25 09/25/99

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On September 26, 1999 at 00:47:44, Ricardo Gibert wrote:

>On September 25, 1999 at 23:20:02, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On September 25, 1999 at 12:47:38, Christophe Theron wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>I think we agree here. That's why I prefer not to use them, as they require 64
>>>processors. I like the idea that my program can take advantage of any processor
>>>I compile for, even if it's not a 64 bits one.
>>>
>>>There are hundreds of millions of 16 and 32 bits PCs in the world today. How
>>>many 64 bits PCs? NONE, ZERO, NIL, NADA.
>>>
>>
>>
>>this is wrong.  Ask bruce as he owns a PC with a 533 mhz alpha in it, made
>>by Polywell.  There are several such machines.  PC magazine has even covered
>>them in detail.
>>
>>
>>>It will take several years (maybe 10) before the number of 64 bits PCs becomes
>>>larger than the number of 16 and 32 bits ones.
>>>
>>
>>folks were saying that about the 386 not replacing the 286 for most businesses
>>too.  Care to guess how many 286's are left?  :)
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>And whether you like/believe it or not, 64 bit machines
>>>>are coming.
>>>
>>>
>>>The problem is not if I like it or not.
>>>
>>>It's crazy to ask millions of people to change their computers to exploit a 64
>>>bits chess program, when they already have a superb 300 or 400MHz PC that in
>>>many countries costs much more than a month of salary, and that is able to give
>>>them master-level analysis...
>>>
>>>And it is misleading to tell them that they will have better chess programs when
>>>64 bits processors are out just because bitboard programs will exploit it. Non
>>>bitboard programs will be stronger too on this architecture and you won't make
>>>the difference just with bitboards.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>And they will be the standard PC in a few more years.  10 years
>>>>ago, people were using your same words, with the target divided by 2:  "Why
>>>>would I ever throw away my 16 bit 286 cpu?  Those 32 bit machines are only
>>>>useful for high-end applications..."
>>>
>>>
>>>You live in a country where only a fraction of your monthly salary is enough to
>>>buy a new powerful personal computer.
>>>
>>>Of course you know it's not the case everywhere in the world.
>>>
>>>So maybe you can easily erase 16 and 32 bits computers from your memory as soon
>>>as Intel produces a 64 bits processor, but there are many people in the world
>>>who will stick to 16 and 32 bits for 10 years or more.
>>
>>
>>
>>that is crazy.  How many people do you know with 286 computers?  they are
>>10 years old. How many do you know with 486 computers? They are 5 years old.
>>How many do you know with p5 pentium machines?  they are 4 years old.  How
>>about pentium pros?  3 years.  Pentium II?  1.5, pentium III?  < 1 year.
>>
>>People replace technology _all_ the time.  I don't know of _anybody_ that
>>doesn't have at least a pentium CPU.    Which means _no_ machines I know of are
>>over 3 years old.  These are home computers.  Office computers.  Business
>>computers.  Game computers. Etc.
>
>Vast majority of the machines at my job are 486s, which are getting replaced
>gradually. There are about 100 PCs hooked up on our WAN. With the the exception
>of a few "hotrods" (P2s, P3s) , which we have because they are sometimes useful
>(graphics processing by marketing, special long running reports & database
>rebuilds), only the servers & citrix boxes use the latest and the greatest
>hardware (like quad xeons, etc). Unlike what you would like to think, businesses
>are not fond of throwing away money for nothing.
>


of course not.  But computers are cheaper than people.  By a factor of almost
100.  Makes a lot of sense to improve an expensive person's productivity by
upgrading a computer.  We just had 50+ computers donated to a networking lab we
have.  These machines were everything between P5/90 to pentium pro/200's.  They
were donated because the business using them was upgrading to PIII/600's.


The point is that at least in the USA, 486's are _not_ being used heavily.
They are nearly impossible to find.  UAB will sell you a pallet full of them
by the pound, as our warehouse is full of retired 386/486 and even older
pentium machines, by the hundreds.  Coming out of academic departments, out of
the hospital, out of the business offices, etc.  As far as chess goes, I can't
begin to count the number of PIII machines on the chess servers...  and these
are machines ie people's homes.  We are buying PIII/600 boxes for under $1500
now...

Ask Intel how many chips they have sold.  That will give you a perspective on
how many older machines are being replaced.  The number is _huge_.



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