Author: Ed Schröder
Date: 04:24:38 09/29/99
Go up one level in this thread
>Posted by Bertil Eklund on September 29, 1999 at 04:52:28:
>>#1. In rare cases I have seen Rebel's NPS drop with a factor of 3 during
>>an auto232 match. Thus playing a match on a PII-450 the machine at some
>>moment in the auto232 match the PC Rebel was running suddenly behaved
>>as a PII-150 machine. The factor 3 is remarkable because it is an indication
>>it smells to hardware and not to software.
>
>Never seen this.
Me neither until I saw it by accident. After it happened I always look at the
NPS of Rebel. It happened a few times. And when it happens the slow-down
remains constant.
>>Of course the outcome of these matches are worthless and I wouldn't exclude
>>the possibility such things also happen on the machines of Rebel opponents.
>>The BIG problem is: how do you recognize it? Perhaps it happens a lot more
>>because it is difficult to notice it. I think that for the future I will add
>>some code to test the reliability of the program after each game.
>>
>>#2. I have seen Rebel and Rebel opponent crashes. Not that I consider an
>>auto232 crash as a big deal as after all auto232 is tricky software and you
>>are asking for trouble. But if after a crash the BIOS is corrupted too I
>>consider that as very serious. In such cases I consider such a match as
>>worthless as I have noticed in such cases Rebel or the Rebel opponent has
>>a big advantage in the match sore (silly match scores like 15-1) which is
>>a clear indication the other PC is totally nuts.
>
>Old versions of Junior crashed often. Never Rebel. Fritz3 hanged up sometimes,
>this due to some problem with the program itself as Fritz3 as an engine F5
>hangs up sometimes.
>
>>#3. Quite often after "exit program" the memory of the PC is corrupted. I
>>have seen for example error silly error messages like, "Sector not found
>>abort, retry... " or other strange stuff. In such cases you sometimes
>>even can't run another program, you have to reboot first to get the PC
>>working again. Of course this raises the question, "how valid was the
>>match you just played?".
>
>Agree happens sometimes and you have to reboot.
>
>>#4. I have seen Rebel (and other programs) play moves that couldn't be
>>reproduced while Rebel is programmed to do so. I have not much of such
>>cases but the fact it happens isn't a funny thought as you don't have
>>the time to check every auto232 move.
>
>Never seen.
Of course not if you are not suspicious. It took me 4 years to become
suspicious and I was right although it took me 6-7 months to come to
that conclusion. But first you must show suspicion.
It was not easy. After each match I picked one game from the beginning
of each match, one from the middle and one from the end of the match
and started to check all the Rebel moves. Not easy as you have to take
the effect of the permanent brain into consideration.
I have seen 2-3 moves that in no way could be reproduced. Out of 40-50
games I checked 2-3 moves is not a high number and these 2-3 moves
were not decisive for the outcome of the game.
>>#5. I have seen Mchess give away a rook to Rebel without any reason as the
>>position was drawish. It was impossible to reproduce it manually. I saw the
>>Mchess case by accident because I was watching the game.
>
>This is a known error in Mchess. Mchess feels free to play whatever move in
>the 50:th move because it thinks it is a draw anyway. This is also true for
>another program.
I did not know that, quite a horror I agree. I still have that remarkable Mchess
game. I have attached it at the end of this posting. In this case things went
wrong at move 45. I am absolutely sure this was an auto232 case as the
match-score was 19-1 in favor of Rebel which is ridiculous. In no way you
can reproduce move 45.
>>#6. I remember a case (which is similar to #3) that after an auto232 session
>>the PC in question couldn't recognize the modem anymore when I tried to
>>log-in to the Internet on that machine. The most worse thing on this case was
>>that I was able to reproduce it time and time again.
>
>Never happend to me so far.
>
>>So far the list (which is not complete) but these are the cases I remember.
>>It made me conclude that auto232 is more fragile than I already thought. An
>>important second conclusion for me was that the problem isn't related to
>
>>Rebel but that all programs sometimes go nuts because of auto232 for
>>totally unknown reasons.
>>
>>I therefore see no reason any longer that Rebel10 should not support
>>auto232. Auto232 in Rebel10 becomes active if you copy a file. To be
>>more precisely do:
>>
>>COPY USERINFO.CFG to AUTO232.CFG
>
>I think I have to stop working early today! I have a new program waiting
>for me at home Rebel10!!
>
>Thanks!
Sounds you already forgot about the topic :)
Ed
----------------------------------------------------
The Mchess auto232 game. Mchess8 is white, Rebel is black.
[Event "?"]
[Site "1 min\move, P6 259 Mhz."]
[Date "1999.04.12"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Player"]
[Black "REBEL=BLACK"]
[Result "0-1"]
[WhiteElo "?"]
[BlackElo "?"]
[ECO "D58"]
1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bg5 Be7 5. e3 O-O 6. Nf3 h6 7. Bh4 b6 8.
Be2 Bb7 9. Bxf6 Bxf6 10. cxd5 exd5 11. O-O c6 12. b4 a5 13. b5 c5 14. Rc1
Nd7 15. dxc5 Nxc5 16. Nd4 Qd6 17. Bg4 g6 { 00:01:29 9.00 0.07 g7-g6
Qd1-d2 Bf6-e5 Nd4-f3 Be5xc3 Qd2xc3 f7-f5 (c) } 18. Na4 Rfe8 { 00:01:04
9.00 0.22 Rf8-e8 h2-h3 h6-h5 Bg4-f3 Ra8-c8 Na4-c3 Nc5-e4 (c) } 19. Nxc5
bxc5 { 00:00:23 9.00 -0.07 b6xc5 Nd4-b3 Bf6-b2 Nb3xc5 Bb2xc1 Nc5xb7
Qd6-c7 (c) } 20. Nb3 c4 { 00:00:20 11.01 0.07 c5-c4 Rc1xc4 Bf6-e5 Rc4-c1
Be5xh2+ Kg1-h1 Bh2-e5 (c) } 21. Rxc4 Be5 { 00:00:00 10.08 0.10 Bf6-e5
Rc4-c1 Be5xh2+ Kg1-h1 Bh2-e5 a2-a4 f7-f5 (c) } 22. Ra4 Bxh2+ { 00:02:08
10.00 0.06 Be5xh2+ Kg1-h1 Bh2-e5 Ra4xa5 f7-f5 Bg4-h3 Ra8-c8 (c) } 23.
Kh1 Be5 { 00:01:44 10.00 -0.13 Bh2-e5 Ra4xa5 f7-f5 Bg4-h3 Ra8-c8 Ra5-a4
Rc8-c7 (c) } 24. Bf3 Qb6 { 00:02:09 9.02 0.00 Qd6-b6 Qd1-d3 Ra8-c8 Ra4xa5
Rc8-c3 Qd3-d2 Rc3-c4 (c) } 25. Qe2 Rac8 { 00:02:23 9.00 0.12 Ra8-c8
Rf1-b1 Rc8-c3 Ra4-h4 g6-g5 Rh4-a4 Re8-c8 (c) } 26. Kg1 Bc3 { 00:00:55
9.01 -0.05 Be5-c3 Rf1-d1 Re8-d8 Ra4-h4 g6-g5 Rh4-a4 f7-f5 (c) } 27. Rc1
Bb4 { 00:00:58 9.01 -0.09 Bc3-b4 Rc1-d1 Re8-d8 a2-a3 Bb4-c3 Ra4-h4 g6-g5
(c) } 28. Rd1 Re5 { 00:00:00 10.00 -0.12 Re8-e5 a2-a3 Bb4-c3 Rd1-c1 d5-d4
Bf3xb7 Qb6xb7 (c) } 29. a3 Bc3 { 00:00:00 10.00 -0.09 Bb4-c3 Ra4-h4 g6-g5
Rh4-h1 f7-f5 Qe2-d3 g5-g4 (c) } 30. Rc1 d4 { 00:01:04 9.00 0.03 d5-d4
Bf3xb7 Qb6xb7 Nb3xd4 Bc3xd4 Rc1xc8+ Qb7xc8 (c) } 31. Bxb7 Qxb7 { 00:00:00
10.00 -0.23 Qb6xb7 Nb3xd4 Bc3xd4 Rc1xc8+ Qb7xc8 Ra4xd4 Qc8-c1+ (c) }
32. Nxd4 Bxd4 { 00:00:14 10.00 -0.13 Bc3xd4 Rc1xc8+ Qb7xc8 Ra4xd4 Qc8-c1+
Rd4-d1 Qc1xa3 (c) } 33. Rxc8+ Qxc8 { 00:00:00 11.00 -0.13 Qb7xc8 Ra4xd4
Qc8-c1+ Rd4-d1 Qc1xa3 Rd1-b1 Re5-e4 (c) } 34. Rxd4 Qc1+ { 00:01:26 11.00
-0.03 Qc8-c1+ Rd4-d1 Qc1xa3 Rd1-b1 Qa3-e7 b5-b6 Qe7-b7 (c) } 35. Rd1
Qxa3 { 00:00:43 11.00 -0.04 Qc1xa3 Rd1-b1 Re5-e4 Qe2-d1 Qa3-e7 b5-b6
Re4-b4 (c) } 36. Rb1 Qe7 { 00:00:31 11.01 -0.11 Qa3-e7 Qe2-f3 Re5-e4
b5-b6 Qe7-b7 Rb1-b5 f7-f5 (c) } 37. b6 Qb7 { 00:00:51 11.00 -0.08 Qe7-b7
Qe2-c4 Kg8-h7 Rb1-c1 a5-a4 Qc4-a2 Re5-e7 (c) } 38. Qc4 Kh7 { 00:00:00 12.00
-0.10 Kg8-h7 Rb1-c1 a5-a4 Qc4-a2 Re5-e7 Qa2-a3 Qb7-e4 (c) } 39. Qa4 Rd5
{ 00:01:01 10.00 0.00 Re5-d5 f2-f3 f7-f5 e3-e4 f5xe4 Qa4xe4 Rd5-d7 (c)
} 40. f3 Re5 { 00:00:22 11.06 -0.17 Rd5-e5 e3-e4 Re5-c5 Qa4-a2 Rc5-h5
Qa2-a3 Rh5-e5 (c) } 41. e4 Rc5 { 00:00:24 11.00 -0.22 Re5-c5 Qa4-a3 Rc5-e5
Rb1-b2 Re5-h5 Qa3-d6 a5-a4 (c) } 42. Qa3 Re5 { 00:00:00 11.02 -0.34 Rc5-e5
Qa3-d6 Re5-g5 Rb1-b2 Rg5-h5 Qd6-d4 Qb7-b8 (c) } 43. Qc3 Rg5 { 00:01:14
11.00 -0.44 Re5-g5 Rb1-b3 Rg5-h5 g2-g4 Rh5-g5 e4-e5 a5-a4 (c) } 44. Kf2
Rh5 { 00:01:21 11.00 -0.29 Rg5-h5 Rb1-b2 Rh5-g5 Qc3-d4 Rg5-h5 Rb2-b3
Rh5-g5 (c) } 45. Ke1 Rh1# { 00:01:33 12.00 5.62 Rh5-h1+ Ke1-f2 Rh1xb1
Qc3xa5 Qb7-c6 Qa5-d5 Qc6xb6+ (c) } 0-1
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