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Subject: Re: This thing about computer GM norms...

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 19:27:45 10/03/99

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On October 03, 1999 at 18:23:59, Ed Schröder wrote:

>On October 03, 1999 at 18:11:18, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On October 03, 1999 at 16:55:40, Mark Young wrote:
>>
>>>On October 03, 1999 at 15:23:15, Lawrence S. Tamarkin wrote:
>>>
>>>>There is no doubt in my mind that the best commercial programs are GM strength,
>>>>but as Seven of Nine often says in Star Trek Voyager, "That is irrelavent".
>>>>
>>>>In order for a chess program to become a GM, it must play in norm qualification
>>>>tournaments against Human GM's.  That won't happen unless Fide suddenly declars
>>>>that the programs can be invited to these events, and challenge for these title
>>>>& norms like any human.  I don't think this would be fair to the Human
>>>>professional chess player's who have to eat and sleep, and often base their
>>>>tournament chances against other Human player's that they have studied to play,
>>>>long & hard.
>>>>
>>>>On the other hand, If a large company like Mircrosoft or Intel (or you name it),
>>>>was sponsoring the event from the beginning, and inviting a group of chess
>>>>programs and humans to fight for these norms and titles, then we could soon have
>>>>plenty of computer Fide Master's, IM's & GM's.  In a way, the AEGON tournament
>>>>was the last such event of this type, but with out the Fide sanctioned status.
>>>>So of course the question arises - How imported is Fide to us for the credence
>>>>we give our human players & chess programs?
>>>
>>>I could care less what Fide does, I also do not think Fide will ever give a
>>>program a chance to earn a GM norm. A title by Fide is not important, what is,
>>>is the programs rating to answer the question. If a program can play GM's and
>>>hold a rating over 2500+ after many game, that is all that is needed IMO.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Larry - the chess software addict!
>>
>>
>>
>>Actually, FIDE will allow this to happen, unless they have rescinded a decision
>>reached several years ago.  The only problem is that the 'fee' to become a
>>computer member of FIDE was _enormous_ as FIDE thought that all the commercial
>>programmers were wealthy, and that the non-commercial programs were sponsored
>>by companies with deep pockets (Cray Blitz for example, or Deep Blue/IBM).  They
>>passed a resolution several years ago, but the fee was (IIRC) somewhere in the
>>$10,000-$30,000 range...  As a result, no computer has been willing to pay such
>>a rediculous fee...
>
>This is true. A few years ago I tried to get an official USCF rating for
>Rebel8. The answer was a yes but I had to pay $15,000 also. Needless to
>say how the story ended.
>
>Ed


That was another story... the now infamous CRA crap that USCF instituted..
specifically to pick _your_ pocket (directed to Ed or any other commercial
programmer).  You can join USCF with no big fee, but the program must be a
program that is non-commercial/experimental.  And that only gets you a magazine
every month...  you _still_ have to find tournaments that are (NC) and I have
had little luck doing that...



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