Author: blass uri
Date: 11:18:51 10/10/99
Go up one level in this thread
On October 10, 1999 at 13:30:24, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On October 10, 1999 at 10:55:20, blass uri wrote: > >>On October 10, 1999 at 10:07:11, Robert Hyatt wrote: >> >>>On October 10, 1999 at 03:22:13, Harald Faber wrote: >>> >>>>On October 10, 1999 at 03:14:10, Ed Schröder wrote: >>>> >>>>>PB-ON vs PB-OFF (results experiment-1) >>>>> >>>>>To enrich the discussion about the value of the "Permanent Brain" (PB) I >>>>>have started 2 experiments with Rebel Century (RC) which will give some >>>>>data for a better judgement. >>>>> >>>>>Experiment-1: >>>>>RC (PB=ON) vs RC (PB=OFF) >>>>>100 auto232 games >>>>>Time control: 60 secs average. >>>>>Hardware: 4xPII-266 + 2xPII-450 >>>>>Result: 61-39 >>>>> >>>>>Experiment-2: >>>>>RC (PB=ON) vs RC (PB=OFF) >>>>>100 auto232 games >>>>>Time control: RC (PB=ON) 30 sec average >>>>>Time control: RC (PB=OFF) 60 sec average >>>>>Hardware: 4xPII-266 + 2xPII-450 >>>>>Status: in progress >>>>> >>>>>Ed Schroder >>>> >>>>Sorry Ed, but where is the sense in it? Is there any difference than playing >>>>Rebel10-Rebel9 which is also meaningless? >>>>Would you expect a result of 50-50 when both playing PB=on or both PB=off? I >>>>wouldn't. >>>>I think the most interesting idea is to take Rebel+PB=on against another program >>>>with PB=on and as comparison play the same match with both PB=off. Of course you >>>>can extend this to Rebel+PB-vs-Opp X PB=off and Rebel PB=off vs Opp X PB=on. >>>> >>>>But Rebel vs Rebel, sorry, there is really no sense in it. >>> >>> >>>It is the perfect way to find out what PB is worth with no other degrees of >>>freedom in the experiment. Different programs would break the experiment as >>>you start off with two variables, (a) program characteristics and (b) PB on/off. >>> >>>using two programs is an ok idea, but this approach does highlight the >>>difference between PBon and PBoff pretty clearly. >> >>I believe that using one program does the difference bigger not only because the >>probability to guess the opponent's move is higher. >> >>PB=off against PB=on is similiar to some hardware advantage and >>playing the same program against itself when one side has hardware advantage is >>more productive to the hardware advantage when you use the same program. >> >>If you use different programs with the same rating on equal hardware then >>hardware advantage is less dominant relative to playing the same program against >>itself. >> >>Uri > > >I think the difference is exaggerated, but not because of correct prediction. >It is exaggerated because it is the _only_ difference between the two programs, >which means that even a tiny difference can be enough to weigh heavily on the >final result. I believe that it is exaggerated also because of correct prediction It is logical to assume that the probability to correct prediction is higher if you play the same program against itself because both programs use the same evaluation function. I do not think that the difference because of more correct predictions when you play the same program against itself is very big and it is possible that it is only 5-10 elo rating points. Uri
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