Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 10:25:53 10/12/99
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On October 12, 1999 at 09:51:55, Micheal Cummings wrote: >Do you have these games played, I have never heard nor seen anything about a >DB Jr playing anything, let alone existing. I have heard DB Jr mentioned in >these so called chips that might be sold to the mass market. DB junior played all over the place. I saw it play Robert Byrne several games at a supercomputing conference somewhere. It played other demonstration games as well. All were recorded somewhere and put on the net... DB Junior wasn't a secret at all... and it was winning 3 of every 4 games vs strong GM competition at longer time controls at these demonstrations. It could have easily won the Fredkin stage II prize (GM performance) if Deep Thought hadn't already done this. > >I find it strange that from what I know the main reason DB was pulled apart was >because of lack of money. But IBM I presume and Hsu seem to have enough money to >go around developing all these DB Jr machines. Which gets me thinking that once >they beat Kasparov that they could of still had the machine playing, but what >better way to go out than on top and boasting. where do you get the 'lack of money'? Where do you get the idea that it was 'pulled apart'? Don't believe _everything_ you read here. Best bet is to ask Hsu/Campbell/etc. You might find that what gets reported here is not always the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. It is often speculation, complete speculation, and nothing but speculation. :) > >This leaves the question about what these guys can come up with and what they >are capable of. Sounds more like a publicity stunt to me to keep the interest up >and the possibility of bigger and better things to get people more interested. > >If you can show me these games played and who the Human GM's were, then I would >love to take a look at them. someone posted a link to a ftp site with many of them. I didn't keep it handy. Many games from Deep thought and DB prototype are in monty's book "Kasparov vs Deep Blue, computer chess comes of age". > >I would also like to know if this DB Jr has been giving GM's a flogging why I >have heard nothing about this, and why GM's still state that computers will >never beat a human or should I say a top ranked human on a regular basis. I can't answer why you haven't heard about it. It has been written up in newspapers, journals, magazines, it has been visible at several conferences where IBM was prominent in the exhibit hall, etc. IE I attended a supercomputing conference and just walked in on an exhibition match between DBJr and Byrne (I think that was the GM opponent, I am not certain as it was fairly commonplace prior to the first DB/Kasparov match). > >As for the rest, yes I will wait and see if these guys can come out with >something either bigger or smaller than DB. > >And as for his book, yes if I can get it I will read it, but things on paper are >not as good as seeing the actual thing in motion, So if he has theories about >some mighty chess machine that he plans to make, then the proof is in the >pudding and I will only accept this when I see it in reality. > Where would we be if Truman had taken that approach with Einstein's famous letter? His reputation lent substantial credibility to his letter about the possibility of splitting the atom and releasing "significant energy". Hsu's credibility is equally as high in the computer chess field, based on past accomplishments, I would think. >You must be a friend of his, even in your past posts on matters concerning him I >have noticed a devotion in defending him against those that wish to challage >him. I pretty much defend anyone that has earned my respect, and who gets slammed over and over with absolutely no grounds for being treated so. Everyone over- looks just how much work goes into a chess program, because hardly _anyone_ has ever actually written one. Much less take a working algorithm and then committing it to hardware. Those that pick on new amateur programs show the same total lack of thought and class, because the worst amateur program running can beat 'vaporware'. All deserve a lot of credit... > >As for me, if you can show me these games played then I will lighten up about >DB, And I will wait till he brings out all these things which you stated will >amaze me. > >Otherwise all my comments still stand, and that is more on the negative side >concerning him and his comments and deeds on computer chess. It is your responsibility to do your research before making blanket statements. DB Jr has played _many_ public games... Just because you haven't found them, doesn't mean they haven't been played. It has played many 'private' matches as well, which have been reported only as 'results' without game scores for lots of different reasons. Hsu has done _nothing_ but make computer chess better. what possible reason is there to make negative statements, just because they took the time and effort required to make a machine that is unlike any other chess program on the planet? Their 'extra effort' is bad?
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