Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 19:34:04 10/13/99
Go up one level in this thread
On October 13, 1999 at 21:47:24, Dave Gomboc wrote: >On October 13, 1999 at 21:36:54, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On October 13, 1999 at 19:50:41, Dave Gomboc wrote: >> >>>On October 13, 1999 at 12:18:57, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>> >>>>On October 13, 1999 at 03:34:11, Shep wrote: >>>> >>>>>On October 12, 1999 at 13:59:47, Christophe Theron wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>this case 7.5 minutes. In this case I saw instead that Hiarcs, with 1 or 2 >>>>>>>minutes left after move 52, used all its time, with the word TIME appearing on >>>>>>>its clock. I had never seen this before either. In this 8th game it was lost >>>>>>>anyway, but Hiarcs lost on time. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Enrique >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Regards, >>>>>>>>Terry >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Very human-like, this time management! :) >>>>> >>>>>I have seen this often, especially in Hiarcs 6. At move 32, its eval drops from >>>>>+0.1 to -1.5 and it suddenly uses like 30 minutes for that move, so that only 5 >>>>>minutes remain for the last 8 moves. In other words, Hiarcs is the only program >>>>>that really gets into time trouble like a human. >>>>> >>>>>--- >>>>>Shep >>>> >>>> >>>>This still sounds like a _serious_ "bug" to me. -1.5 is not absolutely losing >>>>by any measure. But 5 minutes for 8 moves probably is losing against a good >>>>opponent with way more time. >>>> >>>>A fine line exists between using just enough time to save yourself, and using >>>>too much time and basically leaving the game resignable. >>> >>>A drop from 0.1 to -1.5 is an excellent time to start panicking. >>> >>>Dave >> >> >> >>Yes... but with caution. -1.5 isn't necessarily losing. Time == 0 is >>absolutely losing. You have to weigh those two opposing issues and come up >>with something that doesn't turn a possible draw/loss into a definite loss... > >It's big enough that if you're not busted, you've misevaluated how bad your >position is! > >Can someone post the position where the fail low occured at? We can see if it's >a middlegame or an early endgame or what. > >Dave I couldn't begin to count the number of games I have seen where crafty was -1.5, both against computers _and_ against GM players, and yet it won or drew many of those. So at -1.5 it has a fair chance of not losing. But with the clock's flag down it has _no_ chance of drawing or winning. now if that eval was a slip from .0 to -6.00, then I might spend 10x the time, as that is probably lost (although again, I have seen crafty win and draw from that far down). But against a good player, -6 is likely lost. And burning a bunch of time to remedy it might be reasonable... In crafty, I even burn extra time to try to correct positional drops in the score (-.3 for example) as that is sometimes bad enough to lose, particularly in endgames.
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