Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 15:42:30 10/19/99
Go up one level in this thread
On October 19, 1999 at 18:01:04, Enrique Irazoqui wrote: >On October 19, 1999 at 15:21:54, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On October 19, 1999 at 14:02:51, Enrique Irazoqui wrote: >> >>>On October 19, 1999 at 13:49:05, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>> >>>>On October 19, 1999 at 12:56:39, KarinsDad wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>>Have to disagree with you on this one Robert. >>>>> >>>>>Although what you say makes sense on the surface, it does not make sense with >>>>>regard to these specific circumstances. >>>>> >>>>>It was very controversial of Dr. Hsu to use the name Deep Blue Junior when there >>>>>is the obvious confusion with Junior. It was just as controversial of Amir Ban >>>>>to use Deep Junior (with a similar motif, Deep means further down the graph in >>>>>chess programs). However, I can understand Amir's desire to show that what is >>>>>good for the goose is good for the gander. >>>> >>>>Exactly _how_ would "Deep Blue Junior" be confused with "Junior"? I had "Jr" >>>>after my name for _years_ until my dad died, because he was also "Robert Hyatt" >>>>and you can't have two with the same name, in the same family, and not have >>>>mass confusion. >>>> >>>>Feel free to disagree, as that is your perogative. However, note that the >>>>entire USA disagrees with your position. Hence all the "Jr" products that >>>>are over here, from crock pots to crack pots, actually. >>> >>>I tink that this is a key point in the argument. Junior, an Israeli program >>>commercialized by a German enterprise, is not only sold in the US, and "Junior" >>>as a qualifier means nothing in Spanish, French, Italian... Like you, I have the >>>same name of my father, but I never carried the Jr. after. Neither does my >>>eldest son. It wouldn't make any sense in Spanish. >>> >>>What you argue would be valid if the whole world were the US, but it isn't. >>> >>>Enrique >>> >> >> >>Of course. But "deep blue" came from the US. It was built here, by people >>living here, and it fits right in with the thousands of other "junior" products >>on the market. I don't claim to want to force the entire world to follow in >>the path of the US. But those of us living here have this pretty 'ingrained' >>into us by the time we finish school. :) > >Sure, but that's not the point. If a noun becomes a trademark and has the >copyright, no common usage of this word in any language gives the right to >create confusion and infringe an international trademark. I doubt "junior" has been awarded any trademark, although if it had, that only means the word 'junior' by itself, spelled a certain way, in a certain font, etc, would be protected... > >For example, "Honda" is a common Spanish word. You can hit with a "Honda", you >can also give soups with "Honda", as the Spanish idiomatic expression says. But >if a Spanish maker sells an artifact with this name, I know of a Japanese maker >that will complain real loud. "Buy a Honda!". Imagine... I doubt they could complain unless you are talking "automobile" or "motorcycle" or outboard motor for a boat. They wouldn't think twice about such a word used with another well-known word, assuming such usage made perfect sense... IMHO of course.... > >Enrique > >>>>>Regardless of word usage in the U.S., when one product has a similar name to >>>>>another product and both products compete in the U.S., the product which had the >>>>>name first will often win in a court of law. The reason is that the assumption >>>>>is made that the second product is attempting to acquire market share based on >>>>>name recognition of the first product. >>>> >>>> >>>>But _not_ with the word "junior". Any more than you can claim the name "2nd >>>>edition" and prevent all the book publishers from producing a new edition with >>>>that as part of the title. It is simply commonplace. I would be happy to >>>>produce a list of 10,000 products that exist as "productname" and "productname >>>>junior" if you'd like. This is no different, IMHO. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>If there was a maul called Junior and someone else then later came up with Paul >>>>>Junior, I'm sure the company with the one called Junior would win in a court of >>>>>law and the other product would have to change it's name to Mini-Paul or >>>>>somesuch. >>>> >>>>Sure... but if someone named it just "junior" they wouldn't get anywhere as >>>>"paul junior" is accepted here. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>And your analogy with "2" is an attempt to go to a nearly illogical extreme with >>>>>an example. Very few people name ANY product based solely on a number or symbol >>>>>(e.g. Pepsi One is not called 1). However, there are often products named on >>>>>single words, regardless of other meanings of those words (such as Junior). >>>>> >>>>>KarinsDad :) >>>> >>>> >>>>It was just an attempt to show how illogical the arguments are. IE why not >>>>name something "new and improved" and then dare Proctor and Gamble to produce a >>>>"New and Improved Tide"... Junior was used in the above manner _long_ before >>>>it was adopted as the name of a chess program. We played "cray blitz junior" >>>>in a chess tournament in 1984 at the US Open. Because we couldn't get a real >>>>multi-cpu cray, and wanted everyone to know we were running on a very slow one- >>>>cpu cray. When something has been done for so long a time, trying to copyright >>>>a common name modifier like "junior" just won't work. Particularly when the >>>>word "junior" is used in such a common way (at least in the USA and Canada). >>>> >>>>Another choice might be to name a product "free" or "light". We both know what >>>>those mean, right? Free means either no sugar nor no fat, depending on context, >>>>light means low sugar/fat. Totally accepted usage even recognized by the US >>>>department of agriculture, and monitored by the food and drug administration >>>>here. So someone can come along and name something "light" and then challenge >>>>everyone with a "1000 Island Light" name? :) >>>> >>>>Light, free, junior, senior, etc are all treated the same over here...
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