Author: Ed Schröder
Date: 23:53:43 10/19/99
Go up one level in this thread
On October 19, 1999 at 18:42:30, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On October 19, 1999 at 18:01:04, Enrique Irazoqui wrote: > >>On October 19, 1999 at 15:21:54, Robert Hyatt wrote: >> >>>On October 19, 1999 at 14:02:51, Enrique Irazoqui wrote: >>> >>>>On October 19, 1999 at 13:49:05, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>> >>>>>On October 19, 1999 at 12:56:39, KarinsDad wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Have to disagree with you on this one Robert. >>>>>> >>>>>>Although what you say makes sense on the surface, it does not make sense with >>>>>>regard to these specific circumstances. >>>>>> >>>>>>It was very controversial of Dr. Hsu to use the name Deep Blue Junior when there >>>>>>is the obvious confusion with Junior. It was just as controversial of Amir Ban >>>>>>to use Deep Junior (with a similar motif, Deep means further down the graph in >>>>>>chess programs). However, I can understand Amir's desire to show that what is >>>>>>good for the goose is good for the gander. >>>>> >>>>>Exactly _how_ would "Deep Blue Junior" be confused with "Junior"? I had "Jr" >>>>>after my name for _years_ until my dad died, because he was also "Robert Hyatt" >>>>>and you can't have two with the same name, in the same family, and not have >>>>>mass confusion. >>>>> >>>>>Feel free to disagree, as that is your perogative. However, note that the >>>>>entire USA disagrees with your position. Hence all the "Jr" products that >>>>>are over here, from crock pots to crack pots, actually. >>>> >>>>I tink that this is a key point in the argument. Junior, an Israeli program >>>>commercialized by a German enterprise, is not only sold in the US, and "Junior" >>>>as a qualifier means nothing in Spanish, French, Italian... Like you, I have the >>>>same name of my father, but I never carried the Jr. after. Neither does my >>>>eldest son. It wouldn't make any sense in Spanish. >>>> >>>>What you argue would be valid if the whole world were the US, but it isn't. >>>> >>>>Enrique >>>> >>> >>> >>>Of course. But "deep blue" came from the US. It was built here, by people >>>living here, and it fits right in with the thousands of other "junior" products >>>on the market. I don't claim to want to force the entire world to follow in >>>the path of the US. But those of us living here have this pretty 'ingrained' >>>into us by the time we finish school. :) >> >>Sure, but that's not the point. If a noun becomes a trademark and has the >>copyright, no common usage of this word in any language gives the right to >>create confusion and infringe an international trademark. > >I doubt "junior" has been awarded any trademark, although if it had, >that only means the word 'junior' by itself, spelled a certain way, in >a certain font, etc, would be protected... The common rule is to register a brand-name. Brand-names are judged by category. In 1988 I tried to name my company RECOM (Rebel Computers). It was refused because another Dutch company was already registered at that name in the SAME CATEGORY. If the name RECOM would have been existed in the FOOD category there would have been no problem. The bottom line is to avoid confusion in case companies operate in the same area. The very same thing is true for brand-names of products. The goal is to prevent confusion. Nobody is allowed to use the name REBEL in the chess software area. Games like REBEL-ASSAULT have nothing to do with chess so there is no problem. Ed > >> >>For example, "Honda" is a common Spanish word. You can hit with a "Honda", you >>can also give soups with "Honda", as the Spanish idiomatic expression says. But >>if a Spanish maker sells an artifact with this name, I know of a Japanese maker >>that will complain real loud. "Buy a Honda!". Imagine... > > >I doubt they could complain unless you are talking "automobile" or "motorcycle" >or outboard motor for a boat. They wouldn't think twice about such a word used >with another well-known word, assuming such usage made perfect sense... > >IMHO of course.... > > > >> >>Enrique >> >>>>>>Regardless of word usage in the U.S., when one product has a similar name to >>>>>>another product and both products compete in the U.S., the product which had the >>>>>>name first will often win in a court of law. The reason is that the assumption >>>>>>is made that the second product is attempting to acquire market share based on >>>>>>name recognition of the first product. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>But _not_ with the word "junior". Any more than you can claim the name "2nd >>>>>edition" and prevent all the book publishers from producing a new edition with >>>>>that as part of the title. It is simply commonplace. I would be happy to >>>>>produce a list of 10,000 products that exist as "productname" and "productname >>>>>junior" if you'd like. This is no different, IMHO. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>If there was a maul called Junior and someone else then later came up with Paul >>>>>>Junior, I'm sure the company with the one called Junior would win in a court of >>>>>>law and the other product would have to change it's name to Mini-Paul or >>>>>>somesuch. >>>>> >>>>>Sure... but if someone named it just "junior" they wouldn't get anywhere as >>>>>"paul junior" is accepted here. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>And your analogy with "2" is an attempt to go to a nearly illogical extreme with >>>>>>an example. Very few people name ANY product based solely on a number or symbol >>>>>>(e.g. Pepsi One is not called 1). However, there are often products named on >>>>>>single words, regardless of other meanings of those words (such as Junior). >>>>>> >>>>>>KarinsDad :) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>It was just an attempt to show how illogical the arguments are. IE why not >>>>>name something "new and improved" and then dare Proctor and Gamble to produce a >>>>>"New and Improved Tide"... Junior was used in the above manner _long_ before >>>>>it was adopted as the name of a chess program. We played "cray blitz junior" >>>>>in a chess tournament in 1984 at the US Open. Because we couldn't get a real >>>>>multi-cpu cray, and wanted everyone to know we were running on a very slow one- >>>>>cpu cray. When something has been done for so long a time, trying to copyright >>>>>a common name modifier like "junior" just won't work. Particularly when the >>>>>word "junior" is used in such a common way (at least in the USA and Canada). >>>>> >>>>>Another choice might be to name a product "free" or "light". We both know what >>>>>those mean, right? Free means either no sugar nor no fat, depending on context, >>>>>light means low sugar/fat. Totally accepted usage even recognized by the US >>>>>department of agriculture, and monitored by the food and drug administration >>>>>here. So someone can come along and name something "light" and then challenge >>>>>everyone with a "1000 Island Light" name? :) >>>>> >>>>>Light, free, junior, senior, etc are all treated the same over here...
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.