Author: Hans Christian Lykke
Date: 05:08:53 10/24/99
Go up one level in this thread
On October 24, 1999 at 00:38:20, Christophe Theron wrote: >On October 23, 1999 at 14:15:01, blass uri wrote: > >>On October 23, 1999 at 10:44:54, Jonathan Lee wrote: >> >>>On October 22, 1999 at 13:45:17, blass uri wrote: >>> >>>>On October 22, 1999 at 11:27:00, Jonathan Lee wrote: >>>> >>>>>Chess Genius 6 is about double the cost than Fritz 5.32 and others; that's sad. >>>>> >>>>>I remember the game show Family Feud, and the asked who are the best geniuses? >>>>>They are Einstein, Edison, Da Vinci, (and Alexander Graham Bell?). I would like >>>>>to have Richard Lang to be one of them. >>>>> >>>>>Yes, Lang has (extremely most probably) changed the landscape of Eastern >>>>>European chess. Russia's official sport relies directly or indirectly on Lang's >>>>>tactics. >>>>> >>>>>Competition and change of computers are rather rapid these days. There may have >>>>>been "reverse engineering" of a dozen software companies to equal Lang's code. >>>>>In America, it is hard to copyright any software; after all it is all zeros and >>>>>ones. >>>>> >>>>>If one had FischeRandom or other chess variants, Lang would be the starting >>>>>point. Then, they would add an opening library along the way. >>>>> >>>>>There will be software improvements on chess code, but the changes won't be as >>>>>large as the early 1990's. >>>>>Jonathan >>>> >>>>How do you know? >>>>I expect big improvements in Junior,Rebel and tiger. >>>> >>>>Uri >>>The quantum rating leaps are (if told truthfully by their advertisements): >>>1. 2265 USCF to 2325 USCF (Fidelity) >>>2 2325 USCF to 2424 USCF (Mephisto combines Fidelity for Genius 1) >>>3. 2424 USCF to 2470 USCF (Genius 2) >>>4. 2470 USCF to 2495 USCF (Genius 3) >>>5.? 2500+ USCF (hardware improvements and Genius 5) >>>6. Deeper Blue is probably 2700 USCF >>>Please note other software companies have finally caught up with the "Lang >>>explosion". >>>I am going to assume that there is a 75 software rating difference between >>>Genius 3 and Fritz 5.32. I don't want to go negative, but I find hard to >>>believe larger improvements are under way; there will be lots of small ones as >>>I said in the previous (6th) message OK. >>>Other softwares (word processing, spreadsheets, AUTOCAD drawing, etc.) will also >>>have evolutionary (not revolutionary) improvements too. >>>(This is my 7th message ever.) >> >>1)Fidelity,Genius1,Genius2 seems to be the main significant improvement. >>(205 elo between before Fidelity to Genius2) >>What is the difference in time between them? >>What is the difference in ssdf rating(there is not enough information about >>games against humans) >> >>2)The question is about the software improvement so >>I want to know if they play on the same hardware. >> >>3)I think that the difference between Genius3 and tiger12 on the same hardware >>may be more than 75 ssdf rating. >>Genius3 is not tested on the same hardware as tiger12 but Genius3 was tested on >>the same hardware as previous version of tiger and I remember that the >>difference was close to 75 elo. > > >I don't see Genius3 in the last SSDF list, but I do see Genius5 on P90. And >Tiger 11.8 was tested on P90 too. This from the latest SSDF-list (long!) Genius 3 on 33. 23 Chess Tiger 11.8 Pentium 90 MHz 2483 54 178 57% 2435 24 Gandalf 3.0 64MB P200 MMX 2468 41 307 59% 2400 25 193 64MB P200 MMX 2465 42 279 44% 2508 26 Kallisto II 64MB P200 MMX 2446 35 403 52% 2431 27 Rebel 8.0 Pentium 90 MHz 2440 18 1435 55% 2405 27 Rebel 9.0 Pentium 90 MHz 2440 23 890 47% 2461 29 Hiarcs 6.0 Pentium 90 MHz 2437 18 1437 51% 2433 30 Genius 5.0 DOS Pentium 90 MHz 2431 18 1465 48% 2444 31 Hiarcs 5.0 Pentium 90 MHz 2428 38 363 59% 2363 32 MChess Pro 6.0 Pentium 90 MHz 2414 17 1669 46% 2441 33 Genius 3.0 Pentium 90 MHz 2409 26 785 61% 2329 34 Rebel 6.0 Pentium 90 MHz 2408 31 540 60% 2336 > >Tiger 11.8 P90 -> 2483 (+54,-52) >Genius5 DOS P90 -> 2431 (+18,-18) > >(number between paranthesis are error margins) > >That means that with a good confidence: > >2431 <= Tiger 11.8 P90 rating <= 2537 >2413 <= Genius5 DOS P90 rating <= 2449 > >In the worse case Tiger 11.8 is 18 points below Genius5, in the best case it is >124 points above. > >The most probable is that Tiger 11.8 is 52 points above Genius5. > >I expect Tiger 12.0 to be at least 25 points above 11.8, so you are probably >right: Tiger 12.0 is probably 75 elo points above Genius5. > > > > >>4)I know that top programs do many stupid things so I believe that it is >>possible to improve them significantly. > > >You are right. > > > > >>I told Amir Ban about the problems that I found and I believe that he is going >>to improve Junior significantly. >> >>It is more easy to see problems then to fix them but I believe that it is >>possible to improve the software by more than 100 elo and maybe even more than >>200 elo in the next 2-3 years. >> >>I know that Rebel-tiger programmers also expect at least 100-200 elo software >>improvement from the fact that they work together. > > >Yes. I think we can achieve this just by exchanging ideas and selecting the best >ones. I'm not even talking about finding new ideas, and we DO continue to find >new ideas. Exchanging ideas is a kind of brainstorming, and new ideas appear >from time to time. > > > > > Christophe
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