Author: Peter Kappler
Date: 23:12:11 10/26/99
Go up one level in this thread
On October 27, 1999 at 00:03:54, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On October 26, 1999 at 14:50:25, Peter Kappler wrote: > >>On October 26, 1999 at 12:54:02, Amir Ban wrote: >> >>>On October 25, 1999 at 23:04:42, Peter Kappler wrote: >>> >>>>On October 25, 1999 at 22:06:11, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>> >>>>>On October 25, 1999 at 21:26:11, Jerry wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On October 25, 1999 at 20:39:05, Michael Fuhrmann wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>Crafty's Blitz rating on ICC hit an incredible 3262 today. It's a new high for >>>>>>>Crafty, which is miles ahead of the competition on the ICC best list. Congrats >>>>>>>to Hyatt! >>>>>> >>>>>>One reason Crafty is rated so high is his incredible noplay list, refusing to >>>>>>play other high rated computer programs when he loses a few times... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Please name the "high rated programs" on crafty's noplay list, if you want to >>>>>make a statement like that... >>>>> >>>>>Here is the actual ICC noplay list: >>>>> >>>>>********* -human cheating >>>>>********* -human cheating >>>>>CraftyCrafty -crafty clone >>>>>********* -bad behavior >>>>>grouchy -crafty clone >>>>>********* -human cheating >>>>>********* -admitted human cheating >>>>>************* -human cheating >>>>>ComputerMan -craftyclone >>>>>Dementia -disconnector >>>>>EA6PZ -censored for attitude >>>>>Eza -crafty clone >>>>>********* -human cheating >>>>>attakinski -disconnector (chessmaster celeron 333) >>>>>cookies -crafty clone >>>>>criollo -crafty clone >>>>>DesX -crafty clone >>>>>************* -human cheating >>>>>ibrax -human cheating (admitted) >>>>>Lippy -crafty clone >>>>>bookbuilder -crafty clone >>>>>counterplay -crafty clone >>>>>***** -human cheating >>>>>******** -human caught playing and observing at same time >>>>>GODMODE -crafty clone >>>>>inmortal -crafty clone >>>>>Varguz -disconnector and more than 4 games in a row. >>>>>ban -disconnected multiple times in one game. (junior 6.x) >>>>>brut -crafty clone >>>>>crafty450 -crafty clone >>>>>Data -crafty clone >>>>>dini -refused to identify program/hardware >>>>>egghead -crafty clone >>>>>Good-Boy -everybody has noplayed him for attitude >>>>>Jack-Daniels -crafty clone >>>>>********* -human cheating >>>>> >>>>>Any names with ***** in them are humans that were caught cheating but which >>>>>have not yet gotten a (C) nor admitted it. >>>>> >>>>>The "disconnectors" are done by my custom interface when I run it. If someone >>>>>disconnects two times in one game, does so in two consecutive games, they get >>>>>+noplayed for obvious reasons. >>>>> >>>>>Crafty Clones are _not_ wanted. I can do those games offline. Xboard and my >>>>>custom interface both automatically +noplay any crafty clone that matches >>>>>crafty. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Here is best(c): >>>>> >>>>>Standard Blitz Bullet >>>>>2827 OzsO(C) 3251 crafty(C) 3123 crafty(C) >>>>>2783 Good-Boy(C) 3155 Mofongo(C) 2960 Ferret(C) >>>>>2724 Ferret(C) 3145 A-Morozevi(GM) 2956 ZarkovX(C) >>>>>2714 Lynnett(C) 3136 Ferret(C) 2857 Sammour-Hasbun >>>>>2693 TheComputer(C) 3115 Hawkeye(IM) 2854 Dlugy(GM) >>>>>2667 crafty(C) 3069 Vic11 2799 Lippy(C) >>>>>2655 SandmanJr(C) 3068 FlyingPike(GM) 2791 Wagner(FM) >>>>>2612 KillerGrob(C) 3061 ban(C) 2779 Vic11 >>>>>2603 cptnBluebe(GM) 3025 gahan(GM) 2771 vaska(GM) >>>>>2593 ZarkovX(C) 3018 Lippy(C) 2760 Secret(C) >>>>>2583 counterplay(C) 3016 Tendulkar(GM) 2760 Tack(GM) >>>>>2577 singacrafty(C) 3013 cptnBluebe(GM) 2754 KillerGrob(C) >>>>>2577 Zenith(C) 3009 Dlugy(GM) 2750 Masterchess(C) >>>>>2576 Moron(C) 3006 Rix(IM) 2745 Hawkeye(IM) >>>>>2569 Steffie(C) 2996 EggSalad(C) 2733 brut(C) >>>>>2548 triskelon(C) 2995 GMAlex(GM) 2721 nataf(GM) >>>>>2543 BountyHunte(C) 2990 Lolita(C) 2718 pap(GM) >>>>>2542 Lippy(C) 2984 NDShort(GM) 2716 UFGator(C) >>>>>2541 mundilfari(C) 2974 jeleen(GM) 2691 jaguar >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Please show me all those "top-rated" programs I have noplayed. I play Ferret, >>>>>Zarkov, etc. On the standard list, I have played ozso until he quit playing me >>>>>as he was trying to see how high he could drive his standard rating. I play >>>>>Ferret regularly. Sandmanjr. Zarkovx, and bountyhunter (no crafty clones at >>>>>all). On the blitz list, I play ferret, have played ban a lot although he got >>>>>+noplayed sometime recently by the automatic disconnect detector. >>>> >>>> >>>>This is really disappointing, as Ban and Ferret are the only SMP-capable >>>>programs (besides other Crafty clones) on ICC. I enjoyed watching the Crafty >>>>vs. Ban encounters - the games were always very tense and well fought. >>>> >>>>Despite the history between you and Amir, I doubt that the disconnects were >>>>intentional. Probably just a poor connection on his side. I hope you will >>>>reconsider the "noplay" status. >>>> >>>>--Peter >>> >>>I got noplayed by crafty last week. I think it was playing more than 4 games in >>>a row rather than disconnecting. At the time crafty's rating was 3146, so it >>>seems it's rating jump is a result of noplaying ban. Crafty & clones typically >>>gain around 200-300 points when they don't play other computers. I didn't >>>realize crafty's noplay list is so long, but looking at it it effectively >>>doesn't play top computers any more (ferret is hardly around these days). >>> >>>I know about crafty's rules for not disconnecting (suspicion of cheating, what >>>else ?), and not playing more than 4 games in a row against a computer (mustn't >>>keep those humans waiting. Mind you it may be hours between games, it's your >>>business to keep track of who crafty plays). I find both, in the context of >>>games between two competitors for top blitz position to be unsportsmanlike and >>>rude, but so be it. >>> >>>I don't have a noplay list, by the way, but if I did, I think crafty would have >>>a place on it. Here is a sample of bad behavior: >>> >>>- On a previous occasion I was noplayed by crafty after winning three games in a >>>row, and on the way to win a 4th one, when I had to disconnect. When trying to >>>complete this game I found I was noplayed. I messaged Bob about this, quoting >>>the documented ICC rule that censoring someone you have an adjourned game with >>>is abuse. I was answered (rudely) that that's just how the program behaves and >>>it's my fault. I complained to the ICC admins on that occasion. >>> >>>- Crafty's connection is often poor, and it has big lags, of up to minutes per >>>move. If this happens, don't disconnect ! That's cheating. Crafty sometimes >>>disconnects due to connection problems, but that's not cheating. >>> >>>- Crafty will not accept a draw offer ever, even not when it has insufficient >>>material to win. >>> >>>- On one occasion, when the opponent had insufficient material (bishop vs. pawn, >>>I think), not only did it refuse to draw, but with several minutes on its clock, >>>it did not make a move and let time run out (ICC declared this a draw of >>>course). The opponent cannot just walk away because crafty has a pawn. I think >>>this is the worst form of abuse I've seen on ICC. >>> >>>In regard to the question of what Crafty's ICC rating reflects: It says >>>something, but not much. The current version (17.0 ?) is pretty competent, I >>>think, but it doesn't feel much better than 16.6, which was rated hundreds of >>>points lower. There were intermediate versions that had ICC ratings above 3200 >>>that were definitely soft and were consistently creamed by Junior. Crafty's >>>rating is more heavily influenced by whether competition like Ferret and Ban are >>>around. >>> >>>Amir >> >> >>Bob, if you are reading, may I make two suggestions? >> >>1) If you want to enforce the "4 in a row" rule, do so automatically. Allowing >>a 5th game and then subsequently +noplaying the opponent seems inconsistent. >>Not everybody stops to read Crafty's finger notes. >> >>2) Reconsider Crafty's policy for handling disconnects. It seems unfair that an >>account can get permanently +noplayed just because it had a poor network >>connection one day. There must be a better way to deal with this. >> >>The current situation with Ban is disappointing, to say the least. >> >>--Peter > > >The disconnect detection is pretty reliable: two disconnects in a game, and it >has to happen two games in a row. IE if in any two consecutive games, you >disconnect twice in each game, you get zapped. The chances of that happening >accidentally seems very low. > >As far as the +noplay after the 4th game, I get a message from crafty when that >happens. I then send a message to the computer operator explaining my 4 games >in a row limit, and then I -noplay them. Of course if they violate this again, >they might be 'stuck'. Thanks for explaining. Your disconnect policy is more lenient than I realized. I also forgot that xboard takes some of the control out of your hands for limiting consecutive games. (Though it sounds like Tim Mann is working on this.) --Peter
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