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Subject: Re: Crafty rating on ICC

Author: walter irvin

Date: 06:20:17 10/28/99

Go up one level in this thread


On October 28, 1999 at 06:27:10, Amir Ban wrote:

>On October 27, 1999 at 14:28:15, James B. Shearer wrote:
>
>>On October 27, 1999 at 11:13:57, Amir Ban wrote:
>>
>>>On October 27, 1999 at 00:30:45, James B. Shearer wrote:
>>>
>>>>On October 26, 1999 at 12:54:02, Amir Ban wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I got noplayed by crafty last week. I think it was playing more than 4 games in
>>>>>a row rather than disconnecting. At the time crafty's rating was 3146, so it
>>>>>seems it's rating jump is a result of noplaying ban. Crafty & clones typically
>>>>>gain around 200-300 points when they don't play other computers. I didn't
>>>>>realize crafty's noplay list is so long, but looking at it it effectively
>>>>>doesn't play top computers any more (ferret is hardly around these days).
>>>>
>>>>        The bit about 200-300 points is hard to believe.  In fact I don't
>>>>believe it.  If this were true the crafty clones would be continuously pumping
>>>>rating points from the human pool to the computer pool.  To maintain balance
>>>>some computers in the computer pool would have to be pumping just as many points
>>>>back into the human pool.  Which computers do you think are doing this?  I've
>>>>been playing crafty clones to inflate my rating but apparently this is all wrong
>>>>and I should be playing some other computers.  Which are they?
>>>>                             James B. Shearer
>>>
>>>Mofongo, eggsalad, counterplay, wyrm and others. Some of them don't exclude
>>>computers in their formula, but they noplay me, and have always done so. I don't
>>>know who else they're noplaying.
>>>
>>>To find them, simply look at the top of the blitz list for crafty clones. To
>>>find those that play with everyone, look much lower in the list.
>>
>>         This is not responsive to the point I was making.  Suppose crafty
>>clones A, B and C play with everyone and have rating 2700.  According to you
>>they would have rating 2900-3000 if they just played humans.  This means that
>>when A, B and C do play humans they will be picking up lots of rating points (as
>>their rating tries to move from 2700 to 2900-3000).  For their rating to stay at
>>2700 they must be losing the rating points they are picking up from humans to
>>some of the computers they are also playing.  Suppose they are losing points to
>>computers X, Y and Z.  Then X, Y and Z must also be losing the rating points
>>they are winning from A, B and C back to the human pool (else the rating of X, Y
>>and Z would rise to the point that X, Y and Z stopped winning rating points from
>>A, B and C).
>>          So the question I am asking is what are names of programs X, Y and Z
>>whose ratings would shoot up if they noplayed humans?  If A, B and C actually
>>exist then conservation of rating points means X, Y and Z must exist also.  As a
>>human I want to play X,Y and Z and grab some of those rating points.
>>
>
>Your argument is too complicated for me to follow. It sounds like you are
>assuming that ICC ratings are in some sort of equilibrium and drawing
>conclusions based on that.
>
>I don't think theres any sort of equilibrium there. For one thing, it's not
>closed, and players are always entering and exiting the system. Besides, rating
>averages show huge drifts over time. I think blitz ratings are drifting
>perpetually higher, and in three years we will see above 4000. Another thing
>wrong with your argument is that the lower rated crafties will not be popular
>with humans since they have alternatives with same version & CPU but much higher
>rating.
>
>Your conclusion, that there are no free rides at ICC, is certainly false. Anyone
>who's interested enough can boost his rating several hundred points by careful
>opponent selection. There's one or two crafties that have done exactly that.
>
>
>>>Last year there were several top computers playing regularly on ICC, and the
>>>standard 'high' rating was in the 2900's. Now serious comp-comp competition is
>>>almost disappeared from ICC and crafty, the only one still around, has gone up
>>>around 200-300 points.
>>
>>          Maybe crafty got a lot better and has driven the competition from the
>>field of battle.
>>                                James B. Shearer
>
>Maybe, but I can also get a much higher rating than I could hope for last year,
>so maybe not.
>
>Amir

Amir i dont see why you are getting so excited about crafty's rating . junior
has nothing to prove .junior proves every year at the world championships that
it is a top notch program . now with deep junior  multi processor it has to be
one of the most sought after programs .i would not worry if i were you .



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