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Subject: Re: PVS or AlphaBeta? Anyone using AB?

Author: Ulrich Tuerke

Date: 08:29:35 10/28/99

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On October 28, 1999 at 08:42:50, Rémi Coulom wrote:

>On October 28, 1999 at 06:30:37, Ulrich Tuerke wrote:
>
>>On October 27, 1999 at 15:38:54, Frank Schneider wrote:
>>
>>>Hi all,
>>>
>>>this is a question about the searchalgorithms used by other programs.
>>>Many programs and also Gromit seem to use PVS or MDT(f) which both use
>>>nullwindow-searches.
>>>Is there anyone using a search that doesn't do nullwindow searches?
>>>Why? Why not?
>>
>>I am sure that there are some programs not using minmal window searches, also
>>among the top programs (Hiarcs ?).
>>In principle (AFAIK), the AB standard algorithm works correctly, PROVIDED the
>>result of the search does not depend on the choice of alpha and beta.
>>However in practice, this condition may be violated in most cases. Think for
>>instance of evaluation window techniques, null move cuts, futility cuts,
>>extensions, ... .
>>The violation of this precondition can make the search instable, e.g. you may
>>get a fail-low in a fail-high verification search, because alpha & beta have
>>changed when doing the re-search and the conditions for your tactical extensions
>>will not be reproduced in some cases.
>>
>>When it now comes to a minimum window search, you have generally many more
>>verification searches with shifted aspiration window. Thus, the above described
>>instabilities may become far more dramatic. Of course, this happens not only on
>>the root of the search, where it becomes obvious but also internally (in PVS)
>>all the time. In my prog, I observed that I do not get stable evaluations at all
>>when using PVS, though it fastened up the search a little bit. I think that this
>>was a consequence of the very strong alpha-beta dependencies in my prog.
>>Therefore, i decided not to use PVS.
>>
>>Uli
>>>
>>>
>>>Frank
>
>I have the same problem in The Crazy Bishop. One idea that might be worth trying
>would consist in using two windows in a search : the real alpha-beta window and
>the aspiration window. Beta cutoffs on the aspiration window would be allowed
>only in case there is a real move >= AspirationBeta,

I am afraid that this would kill the performance of your prog, because you skip
lots of cuts !

Uli

>the null move being tested
>against RealBeta only. This is on my list of things to try.
>
>Remi



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