Author: Will Singleton
Date: 00:24:40 10/29/99
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On October 29, 1999 at 02:34:23, Ed Schröder wrote: >>Posted by Robert Hyatt on October 28, 1999 at 21:39:17: >> >>I have been to them since they first started holding them. In the early 70's, >>we all talked. In the 80's, the 'research groups' talked, the commercial >>programmers 'lurked'. To see this, just take a gander through the JICCA, and >>see how many published articles you find by commercial programmers. >>Prepare to >>look long and hard. And prepare to find only a tidbit here and there that is >>5-6 years out of date. Compared to those of us doing this for fun... > >I am sorry to say but the only thing I found useful in the ICCA journal (for >Rebel) was an article how to implement the hash table and that was 10 years >ago. After being an ICCA member for 15 years and 60 magazines I would say >that ain't much. > >Your argument is in contradiction also. The MAIN improvement for nowadays >programs since 4-5 years comes from NULL-MOVE, right? This includes Crafty >as well. > >And who gave you null-move? > >Right, 2 commercial chess programmers :-) > > >>>Ever asked Chrilly Donninger about how he has implemented Null >>>Move? Ask him and he will tell you! > >>maybe he will, and maybe he won't. > >:-) > >Wasn't it Chrilly Donninger who made NULL-MOVE world famous in the ICCA >journal? > >NULL-MOVE gave every program who had not a decent selective search algorithm >an improvement of over 200 elo points and for some certainly more. > >History of NULL-MOVE: >Inventor: Don Beal >Creator: Frans Morsch (commercial) >Publisher: Chrilly Donninger (commercial) > >Please stop your bickering on commercials as you using the most powerful >idea since times in Crafty yourself which came from 2 commercials. > >About Crafty's source code, I have downloaded Crafty's source code twice >(version 9.xx and 16.6). I found nothing special I could use. Just to let >you know that not everybody is lurking your source code as you imply. > >Ed You mean, please start the bickering? :) ICCAJ is and has been an extremely good source of information for many chess programmers, there is no doubt of that. If you have not found it so, perhaps you are the exception. There is certainly no requirement for you to share the fruits of your labor; you are after all in business, and do not want to give away your work. That's fine. But don't put it down, the ICCAJ is a fine and important resource for the rest of us. As for your history of Null Move, I will defer to your experience, since I am again at home and without my ICCAJ <g>. However, was the technique not generally known long before Fritz and Nimzo (and certainly more than 5 years ago)? I recall reading a paper written in the 1970's by the authors of Kaissa, describing the "blank move" technique. They could have gotten it from someone else, I don't know. Do you know the origin? And you go on to say that you have downloaded and reviewed Crafty's source, but found nothing useful. I would certainly call that lurking, since if you *had* found something useful, you'd have used it. Right? Lastly, I'd like to point out that I don't like the idea of distributing highly advanced source code, I think it's detrimental to the spirit of discovery and individual achievement. It dissuades the true amateur from the game. I know this because I have looked at crafty's code and found it beautiful, elegant, and good. And I won't copy it, though others do. The way to advance the theory of chess programming is not to publish your code, but rather to publish your ideas. Will
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