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Subject: Re: Please stop the bickering

Author: Dave Gomboc

Date: 21:14:43 10/29/99

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I have several deadlines next week, which is why I'm delaying responding to
Ratko's posts in another thread.  However, I would like to make a timely
contribution to this thread, because of an experience today.

You may or may not be aware that there is a GAMES group at the U of A.  Jonathan
Schaeffer, Tony Marsland, and 10 or so Ph.D. and M.Sc. students are involved.
Meetings are held periodically, as the situation warrants.

Jonathan and Jack van Ryswyck arranged for a visitor to come and speak today.
Dr. Vadim Ansheleyevich was a scientific researcher in Moscow before moving to
North America and entering industry.  He recently wrote Hexy, which plays Hex,
at the level of a reasonably strong human.

I am the first to agree that GAMES group members are not the finest classic game
developers to grace the planet.  I hope that you will grant that we are not
exactly slouches at it either, though.  Jack has written QueenBee, a strong Hex
program in its own right, and when he told us he had discovered someone with a
program even slightly better than his, we were quite curious to find out more
about it.

So, Vadim was invited to come to the U of A and talk, and for several hours,
that is what he did.  He introduced some basic premises on which the assessment
of a Hex position should be based, and explained why he thought this was so.  He
presented an early proposal by -- Claude Shannon! -- and discussed what was good
about it, and what could be improved.  He provided a mathematical foundation for
his static evaluation algorithm, the intuition for which Jonathan described as
"brilliant" -- and Jonathan doesn't throw that word around loosely.  He
commented about constraints for his specific implementation.  He generalized
experimental results that he had obtained regarding the tradeoff between the
quality of static evaluation and the depth of the game-tree search.

In short, when I walked out of the meeting room I could have sat down at a
computer and wrote an extremely strong hex program.

Later, it was Jack's turn, and Jack described in minute detail what he was doing
in QueenBee.  Ideas, evaluation and search algorithms, data structures,
implementation tips, tricks, and gotchas, the whole ball of wax.  I didn't stick
around for the entire presentation, because I've heard Jack talk about QueenBee
before, but the level of detail was similar.  Vadim could probably sit down at a
computer and implement QueenBee.

Vadim and Jack had discovered some similar properties of good Hex programs, but
in truth their programs are far more different than similar.  Both of them
really had their eyes opened by today's revelations.  It might be a little rash,
but I predict that the next versions of their programs will beat any human
opposition: the combination of their respective insights is that powerful.

I recounted this experience because I would like to make two observations:

1) Co-operation between parties accelerates progress.  Furthermore, my
experience with the GAMES group tells me that the co-operation of n parties is
much more than (n-1) times more effective than the co-operation of two parties.

2) What academics consider to be "disclosure of information" is significantly
different from what commercial software developers consider to be "disclosure of
information".

I appreciate that some people make a living from computer chess, and therefore
do not feel they can afford to "tell all".  I also appreciate that even so, some
of these people are willing to say something from time to time.

Ed is correct when he says that while he might not spell it all out, it only
takes a half-word for a sharp listener to pick up the trail and sniff it out.
Bob is correct when he says that, in general, commercial programmers do not
divulge information.  He is even more correct when we add "publicly".  These
statements are not contradictory: they are different viewpoints of the same
reality.  And, without intending to offend anyone (my supervisor comes to
mind!), it's my opinion that accusations that the publication standard of the
ICCA Journal is too low are well-founded.  Of course, the flip side is also
true: if commercial developers submitted articles, this wouldn't be the case.

I don't think that academics will stop publishing papers; it's germane to their
jobs.  I would like to encourage commercial developers to continue -- or to
start -- to contribute as much as they feel comfortable with, in CCC, if not in
print.  Contributing your ideas and experimental data only increases the rate of
progress in computer chess, something that I think is exciting for all of us.

Dave



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