Author: Christophe Theron
Date: 20:29:36 10/31/99
Go up one level in this thread
On October 31, 1999 at 22:01:15, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>On October 31, 1999 at 18:20:00, Christophe Theron wrote:
>
>>On October 31, 1999 at 10:12:06, Amir Ban wrote:
>>
>>>On October 30, 1999 at 17:52:02, Christophe Theron wrote:
>>>
>>>>On October 30, 1999 at 08:22:00, Enrique Irazoqui wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I have played 2 matches at game/5 between Tiger 12.0 and Crafty 16.18 as an
>>>>>engine for Fritz.
>>>>>
>>>>>Crafty played on a PIII-500, 64MB hashtables, the Nalimov tablebases that come
>>>>>with Fritz and the General book of Fritz 5 built after games of 2500+ players.
>>>>>
>>>>>Tiger 12.0 played on a PII-300, 32MB hashtables and the small book of Tiger 11.7
>>>>>with only 35000 positions.
>>>>
>>>>Oops... Not exactly.
>>>>
>>>>This book indeed comes from the first versions of Tiger 11.x but it contains
>>>>only 7682 moves.
>>>>
>>>>This is 35 times smaller than the current book provided with Tiger 12.0.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I used this book to compensate for Crafty not using
>>>>>its own. It was not uncommon to see Tiger out of book after 2, 3 or 4 moves. I
>>>>>don't think that the book gave Tiger any kind of advantage.
>>>>>
>>>>>In the first match, Tiger won 25-13, +19 -7 =12, scoring 65.7%
>>>>
>>>>Wow! What elo rating difference would that mean?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>The second match was played under the same conditions, except that Tiger had PB
>>>>>off. In this second match, Tiger won 23-21, +16 -14 =14, scoring 52.2%.
>>>>>
>>>>>Going back to the discussion of a few weeks ago about PB on/off, these 2 matches
>>>>>seem to indicate that PB off is not more detrimental than what could be expected
>>>>>by just not using the usual 50% of the opponent's time.
>>>>>
>>>>>The delay in transmitting the moves through auto232 is almost 3 seconds/move for
>>>>>the dos driver and about 2/10 for the windows driver. Considering that the
>>>>>average in these matches is 79 moves/game, each game lasted 14 minutes instead
>>>>>of 10. Assuming that both programs guessed 50% of the opponent's moves, Tiger
>>>>>and Crafty used 9.5 minutes/game (5 + 4.5) each with PB on, while in the second
>>>>>match Tiger used 5 minutes/game. It is as if Tiger would have played the first
>>>>>match on a P300 and the second on a P150. All this mess (sorry) makes the
>>>>>results of both matches quite coherent.
>>>>>
>>>>>I tried all this PB on/off thing in a different way. Didzis plays with 2
>>>>>programs on one machine and PB off. I replayed with 2 machines one of his games
>>>>>Tiger-CM6K and both programs played the same moves.
>>>>>
>>>>>So it seems that for some programs playing with PB off has no other effect than
>>>>>having less time to compute.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Also it seems that a crippled Tiger is still better than a full strength Crafty
>>>>(PII-300/small book against PIII-500).
>>>>
>>>>And it seems that a crippled crippled Tiger is still at least as strong as a
>>>>full strength Crafty (PII-300/PB off/small book against PIII-500).
>>>>
>>>>I find this interesting as some time ago Bob was laughing at me because I'm
>>>>still using a 386sx20 for some of my tests and algorithmic improvements.
>>>>
>>>>I would not be surprised if Chess Tiger 12.0 on PII-300 was able to stand Crafty
>>>>on a Quad-Xeon. After all that would only be a 4x speed advantage for Crafty. :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Christophe
>>>
>>>
>>>That's approximately the speed advantage in crafty vs. ban on ICC (that is,
>>>pre-noplaying and censoring):
>>>
>>>4 x 450 MHz at 5 + 3 inc vs. 2 x 350 MHz at 5 + (-1) (that's my setting because
>>>I'm manual). If the game lasts 60 moves that translates to:
>>>
>>>
>>> (1800 MHz * 8 min) / (700 MHz * 4 min) > 5
>>>
>>>Good luck,
>>>Amir
>>
>>
>>I'll not need a negative time increment. Tiger in the new Windows interface can
>>be directly connected to ICC.
>>
>>The Quad-xeon is 4 x 400, that is 1600MHz.
>>
>>With one processor, I have a 100% efficiency. With 4 processors Bob has 75%
>>efficiency.
>>
>>I would need a 400MHz processor to keep a 3x speed advantage in favor of Bob. I
>>have only a 300MHz computer, so I'll try with this one and we will see.
>>
>>I'll do that (if Bob allows it) after the commercial release. I'm too busy at
>>this time.
>>
>>
>> Christophe
>
>
>Crafty plays anyone. Except those with mouths a bit too big. Since Amir
>implied that I am a liar about the "crafty doesn't intentionally let its flag
>fall to be abusive to others" I choose to simply not play or chat with him at
>all on ICC. My decision. You are welcome to play. If you let me know when I
>will try to be sure the machine is not doing anything else.
>
>I am going to be in Denver from Tue nite thru Friday night, so I won't even be
>on ICC (nor here most likely). I will try to catch up Friday night...
I'm not going to try this immediately. I must finish the commercial version.
Anyway the commercial version is required as I can't connect my text mode engine
to ICC.
I think I'll be ready for this match in 2 weeks probably.
Christophe
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