Author: Christophe Theron
Date: 23:32:48 10/31/99
Go up one level in this thread
On October 31, 1999 at 22:11:12, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>On October 31, 1999 at 18:10:33, Christophe Theron wrote:
>
>>On October 31, 1999 at 04:04:41, Peter McKenzie wrote:
>>
>>>On October 31, 1999 at 02:28:52, Christophe Theron wrote:
>>>
>>>>On October 31, 1999 at 00:02:37, Peter McKenzie wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On October 30, 1999 at 17:52:02, Christophe Theron wrote:
>>>>>
>>
>>(snip)
>>
>>>>>>I would not be surprised if Chess Tiger 12.0 on PII-300 was able to stand Crafty
>>>>>>on a Quad-Xeon. After all that would only be a 4x speed advantage for Crafty. :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>You talk the talk, but can you walk the walk?
>>>>>I'll look forward to seeing tiger on ICC.
>>>>
>>>>I'll do when I have some free time.
>>>>
>>>>Is there something in what I say you don't find reasonnable?
>>>
>>>To be honest I find the tone of your post somewhat distasteful.
>>
>>
>>Really Peter?
>>
>>Probably you have missed the recent cute exchange between Bob and Amir? Bob
>>using words like "full of snot".
>>
>>If you find my message "distasteful" I'm wondering what you would have said
>>about Bob's.
>>
>>You missed it, did you?
>>
>
>
>
>Nope.. _you_ missed it here. Amir directly implied that I am a liar. I
>responded. back up and read again. It is there in black in white.
I have read everything and just noticed that you overreacted to every post from
him.
I'm not especially on Amir's side for this. I was just reading the thread and
tried to understand the subtle things happening on ICC. I don't know ICC myself,
never been there.
So I was just trying to learn something new and found myself reading sentences
in your post like: "if you are implying this you are full of snot" (freely
quoted).
You have used this tone immediately. You could have at least tried one time to
tell him in a polite way that you were not doing what he was implying.
You do this kind of things all the time. And we are supposed to put up with this
I assume?
>>What I wanted to point out in my message is that Crafty, that some are taking as
>>a reference, is YEARS BEHIND the top programs.
>>
>>Not only behind Tiger in fact. I'm pretty sure you can repeat the same
>>experiment with the top commercial programs, namely:
>>
>> Fritz5.32
>> Rebel10
>> Hiarcs7.32
>> Junior5.0
>> Nimzo99
>> MChessPro6.0
>> Shredder2
>> Genius5
>>
>
>
>We have a different opinion of what 'behind' means. I dare say that Crafty
>on a couple of machines I have used in the past two years is not behind _any_
>of those. IE last year a 21164 X 16 running at 7M nodes per second (I was
>going to run on that box for the WCCC in Paderborn if I could have worked out
>details to get there.) Crafty on a 21264/750 will probably do about 20M nodes
>per second. If you think it is 'behind' given the right hardware, if you see a
>bright light in your rear-view, you had better get _out_ of the way. Not fair?
>Says who? I spent a year getting the SMP search to work. So I consider that to
>be fair game.
Yes, Crafty definitely needs several processors to play equal with the top
programs.
Yes, 4 processors are likely to be not enough next time. You'd better come with
8 or 16, because some top programs will also use several processors.
Maybe Tiger on a single CPU can resist Crafty against 4 processors (we will
try), but I'm pretty sure to lose against 8 processors, if it makes you feel
better.
>>As a measure of how much it is behind I would say that in my opinion it is at
>>least 100 elo points behind.
>>
>>That's HUGE.
>>
>>That's why I think Tiger on a PII-400 would stand Crafty on Quad-Xeon.
>>Unfortunately I have only a K6-2-300, so I'll have to try the experiment (if Bob
>>agrees) with a 4x handicap, which probably translates to a 120-160 elo points
>>handicap.
>>
>>Is it that distateful to point out that Crafty is so far behind?
>>
>>
>>
>> Christophe
>
>
>We need two tests: A significant crafty vs tiger match.
So you say that the match played by Enrique was not significant?
I don't understand. You need a hardware advantage, and you had a hardware
advantage in Enrique's match. You had the PIII-500, I had the PII-300.
But you lost both matches. With and without PB on Tiger's side. You had your PB
all the time, so you can't complain on this, isn't it?
What, Bob? You need 2 x PIII-500?
> Then a significant
>computer vs a couple of good GM matches. You will find "cptnbluebear" _not_ to
>your liking. I _know_ how I do against the strong humans. I don't worry about
>how I do against computers. The GM comparison would be an interesting test. We
>could probably get him to play two game matches all day one day, 2 vs you, 2
>vs me, over and over... He _loves_ to do that.
OK, we will try.
What hardware advantage do you want in this case?
Christophe
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