Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 06:17:45 11/01/99
Go up one level in this thread
On November 01, 1999 at 02:36:10, blass uri wrote: >On October 31, 1999 at 15:25:03, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>I disagree. I have played both manually _and_ automated. I didn't notice >>a lot of difference other than 'peace of mind'. > >I think that you are a faster operator. >I agree that with a fast operator there is no big difference between >automatic programs and manual programs but Amir claims that it is not the case >with him and he lost games on time(I agree that it should never happen with a >fast operator). > >I am interested to see the games between you and ban so we can check >how many games ban lost on time. > > > Amir _has_ an automated >>interface, because he used to play on ICC automated. If manual is so bad, why >>doesn't he continue to use the auto interface? I have personally found that >>I could exert significant influence over crafty when I was manual. Forcing >>obvious moves, letting it search longer when things are difficult, overriding >>an occasional lemon move, etc. Running 100% automatic is _very_ difficult >>to do well. I assume Amir agrees since he went from automatic to manual, >>voluntarily. >> >>Automatic operation exposes you to a _lot_ that you don't get when manual. I >>think the difference is a toss-up so long as you avoid 0 inc games. As a quick >>sanity check, have amir play varguz. then compare my results to them (they are >>automatic) with my results to ban (which is manual). You might be surprised at >>how little automatic helps. > >I do not see what I can learn by comparing these results. >If ban lost some games on times then it is > >> >> >>> >>>simple math say if you assume ponder guessing of 50%,8 minutes/game(Junior is >>>using only 4 minutes for playing) >>>and every player is using 1/2 of the time that it does not use for playing and >>>correct in pondering. >>> >>>Junior is using 4 minutes+1/2*12 minutes=4+6=10 minutes. >>>crafty is using 8 minutes+1/2*8 minutes=12 minutes. >>> >> >>what is the "1/2*12? > >I assumed that both sides use 8 minutes per game but Junior is practically >using for playing only 4 minutes(because of a slow operator) so it had 12 >minutes for pondering > >I assumed 1/2 of the time of pondering is effective because Junior predict the >right move. > >Uri Here is the way to find out. Log on to ICC and type "search crafty ban" Here is what I found. Out of the last 40 games, crafty won one on time, while up material. Out of the last 80 games played, that one win on time was the only game that 'search' showed. I assume he didn't lose on time _often_ based on that, wouldn't you agree? As far as time odds, your formula holds up for _any_ game on unequal hardware. Which is well-known. If a machine is twice as fast, it is twice as fast. If you want to call it 4.5x faster because it is twice as fast but time dilation makes it look bigger, fine... When I play 'time odds' games, and give my opponent 2 mins to 1 min on the clock for me, I don't then explain to him that I am "really" giving him 4.5 to 1 odds...
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