Author: Christophe Theron
Date: 09:58:41 11/01/99
Go up one level in this thread
On November 01, 1999 at 10:32:27, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>On October 31, 1999 at 10:12:06, Amir Ban wrote:
>
>>On October 30, 1999 at 17:52:02, Christophe Theron wrote:
>>
>>>On October 30, 1999 at 08:22:00, Enrique Irazoqui wrote:
>>>
>>>>I have played 2 matches at game/5 between Tiger 12.0 and Crafty 16.18 as an
>>>>engine for Fritz.
>>>>
>>>>Crafty played on a PIII-500, 64MB hashtables, the Nalimov tablebases that come
>>>>with Fritz and the General book of Fritz 5 built after games of 2500+ players.
>>>>
>>>>Tiger 12.0 played on a PII-300, 32MB hashtables and the small book of Tiger 11.7
>>>>with only 35000 positions.
>>>
>>>Oops... Not exactly.
>>>
>>>This book indeed comes from the first versions of Tiger 11.x but it contains
>>>only 7682 moves.
>>>
>>>This is 35 times smaller than the current book provided with Tiger 12.0.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I used this book to compensate for Crafty not using
>>>>its own. It was not uncommon to see Tiger out of book after 2, 3 or 4 moves. I
>>>>don't think that the book gave Tiger any kind of advantage.
>>>>
>>>>In the first match, Tiger won 25-13, +19 -7 =12, scoring 65.7%
>>>
>>>Wow! What elo rating difference would that mean?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>The second match was played under the same conditions, except that Tiger had PB
>>>>off. In this second match, Tiger won 23-21, +16 -14 =14, scoring 52.2%.
>>>>
>>>>Going back to the discussion of a few weeks ago about PB on/off, these 2 matches
>>>>seem to indicate that PB off is not more detrimental than what could be expected
>>>>by just not using the usual 50% of the opponent's time.
>>>>
>>>>The delay in transmitting the moves through auto232 is almost 3 seconds/move for
>>>>the dos driver and about 2/10 for the windows driver. Considering that the
>>>>average in these matches is 79 moves/game, each game lasted 14 minutes instead
>>>>of 10. Assuming that both programs guessed 50% of the opponent's moves, Tiger
>>>>and Crafty used 9.5 minutes/game (5 + 4.5) each with PB on, while in the second
>>>>match Tiger used 5 minutes/game. It is as if Tiger would have played the first
>>>>match on a P300 and the second on a P150. All this mess (sorry) makes the
>>>>results of both matches quite coherent.
>>>>
>>>>I tried all this PB on/off thing in a different way. Didzis plays with 2
>>>>programs on one machine and PB off. I replayed with 2 machines one of his games
>>>>Tiger-CM6K and both programs played the same moves.
>>>>
>>>>So it seems that for some programs playing with PB off has no other effect than
>>>>having less time to compute.
>>>
>>>
>>>Also it seems that a crippled Tiger is still better than a full strength Crafty
>>>(PII-300/small book against PIII-500).
>>>
>>>And it seems that a crippled crippled Tiger is still at least as strong as a
>>>full strength Crafty (PII-300/PB off/small book against PIII-500).
>>>
>>>I find this interesting as some time ago Bob was laughing at me because I'm
>>>still using a 386sx20 for some of my tests and algorithmic improvements.
>>>
>>>I would not be surprised if Chess Tiger 12.0 on PII-300 was able to stand Crafty
>>>on a Quad-Xeon. After all that would only be a 4x speed advantage for Crafty. :)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Christophe
>>
>>
>>That's approximately the speed advantage in crafty vs. ban on ICC (that is,
>>pre-noplaying and censoring):
>>
>>4 x 450 MHz at 5 + 3 inc vs. 2 x 350 MHz at 5 + (-1) (that's my setting because
>>I'm manual). If the game lasts 60 moves that translates to:
>
>wrong 4x400 and linux. substract 10% for linux for crafty. speedup
>around 3.1
>
>3.1 x 0.9 x 400 = 2.79 x 400 = 3.6+28+800 = 831.6Mhz
3.1 x 0.9 x 400 = 1116
Christophe
>
>I don't know of course the speedup of Junior on a dual.
>What is it?
>
>>
>> (1800 MHz * 8 min) / (700 MHz * 4 min) > 5
>>
>>Good luck,
>>Amir
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