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Subject: Re: How about a computer tournament on ICC ?

Author: Eugene Nalimov

Date: 10:18:17 11/14/99

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Ok, you are free to organize any event with any rules you are want :-.

Returning to the theme of my letter: can program play on other hardware that is
actually *much cheaper* than your suggested equal hardware? E.g. on dual
Celeron/500 instead of PIII/600 (or even 550)?

Eugene

On November 14, 1999 at 11:42:38, Nicolas Carrasco wrote:

>I saw on Chess magazine that a Computer Chess Tournament was perfectly played on
>PC's of 200 MHz. If that programs can't run on a standard CPU(no matter PC,MAC,a
>slow ALPHA,...) I think there are 3 options:
>
>1- Put all chess engines on hardware with similar speed.
>
>2- Tell that programers that this isn't his day.
>
>3- Play VS a chess engine with a CPU 3 or 4 times faster and maybe 64 bits.
>
>In most cases the program is what matters to people, not the combination of
>HARDWARE and SOFTWARE. And if the combination is IMPORTANT we should not say the
>name of the software and put a name to the COMPUTER.
>
>On November 14, 1999 at 02:10:24, Eugene Nalimov wrote:
>
>>I already posted on that topic several months ago, and sorry for re-post, but I
>>think I could not formulate it better now:
>>
>>Subject: Re: 9th  WCCC99  . '' june 14 - 20 "   Notable ausence.
>>From: Eugene Nalimov
>>E-mail: eugenen@microsoft.com
>>Message Number: 54137
>>Date: June 03, 1999 at 14:29:21
>>  In Reply to: Re: 9th  WCCC99  . '' june 14 - 20 "   Notable ausence.
>>  Message ID: 54031
>>  Posted by: Prakash Das
>>  At: pdas@mcs.com
>>  On: June 03, 1999 at 00:07:02
>>
>>Ok, let's be fair. Let's imagine the situation where orgnizers will give every
>>participant quad Alpha 21264. Fair? After that some participants will refuse to
>>play - "our program will not run there, because it's written in x86 assembly, or
>>don't use more than one CPU, or don't tuned for such a speed, or...". My guess
>>is that exactly the same people that say "it's unfair when the hardware is
>>different" will say "Ok, but best commercial programs did not play, so winner is
>>not World Champion".
>>
>>Or Fritz representative will say "Ok, I cannot run on your Alpha, so let me
>>bring my x86 machine - I want to participate, even with disadvantage". What to
>>do now?
>>
>>So, organizers decided to stay with x86, and will give each participants quad
>>Xeon. Nevertheless, some participants will say "our program will not exploit
>>four CPUs", so again there will be no fair play.  And there will be chess
>>program for a Sony Playstation, or Nintendo, of specialized chess board. And
>>then there will be (crazy) person who wrote his program in PPC assembly for Mac.
>>Why ban those program?
>>
>>Ok, let's ban them, and give single-CPU x86 to everybody. What now? Some will
>>say "we spent a lot of time debugging parallel search instead of rewriting our
>>program in x86 assembly, or we deliberately left our program in C, so it can be
>>portable, and worked on other aspects of engine. Others wrote their program in
>>x86 assembly. Now, why our hard work is not honored? We have a disadvantage".
>>
>>So, organizers decided to allow any micro, but not "big iron". After that
>>somebody will say "they brought 32-CPUs Alpha, and it actually costs more than
>>our System/3090 in minimal configuration. And their nps is higher. Why we are
>>not allowed?". More, somebody will come with specialized chess chip, and he will
>>say "it really costs less than even quad Alpha that is provided by the
>>organizers".
>>
>>So, it looks that there will be unhappy people in any situation. With the
>>current rules there is clear distinction - there is WCCC, WMCCC, and some time
>>ago there was "equal hardware championship". Unfortunately, due to lack
>>offinancing (or maybe due to lack of qualified organizers, because old ones
>>became tired, and next generation can only criticize) this year tournirs are
>>"combined". IMHO, it's better to have not ideal solution than to have no
>>solution at all. And if x86 commercial program will lose to some hardware
>>monster, they at least can say "we have a hardware disadvantage", so in a sense
>>everybody will be happy.
>>
>>Eugene
>>
>>On November 13, 1999 at 20:30:01, Nicolas Carrasco wrote:
>>
>>>Yes, but it is an abuse to play VS a CPU greater than 600 MHz. Those who have
>>>that fast machines always have a lagger one.
>>>
>>>Only my opinion :)
>>>
>>>On November 13, 1999 at 15:01:56, Bruce Moreland wrote:
>>>
>>>>On November 13, 1999 at 12:11:19, Nicolas Carrasco wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I think that this is a great idea, but for doing a tournament I think all chess
>>>>>programs must have the same hardware and how you can detect that at ICC?
>>>>
>>>>You can't have a uniform event, unless you want to have a bunch of people not
>>>>play.  Not everyone owns the same compputer.
>>>>
>>>>bruce



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