Author: blass uri
Date: 08:28:04 11/21/99
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On November 21, 1999 at 04:56:00, Anatoli wrote: <snipped> >I can't understand all that >mess around Hiarcs 7.32 when it was release 6 months ago. You can only enjoy it >when you organise an engine tournament and you would find Hiarcs on the top of >the table. But it's "understanding" of positions is very low. I agree about it. The "understanding" of all programs is low. Sorry, But Nimzo >and Junior are absolutely unsuitable for deep analises. I hope that the nest >versions would be better. >There were many conversations here if the top engines play at the grandmaster >level. My answer is NOT. They can beat 2600+ IG in a game with 1 or 2 hour time >control. But if a IG has much more time on thinking, any engine doesn't have any >chances. I will give you my own example. Now I play in e-mail tournaments and >have 2515 rating. ALL MY PARTNERS use top engines without any understanding >what's going on the board. They simply receive my moves, then give it to Fritz >or Hiarcs and then sent me the answer in no time. I can immedeatelly find out >what sort of engine they use.I call such sort of players as postmen. How much time do they give the programs for a move? I know noone who think that top programs are better than IM's if you give both sides 1 hour per move. >Unfortunately I play against 99% postmen. Till now I finished 20 games and I won >14 and 6 draws. Not too bad result against Fritz and Hiarcs, what do you think ? 1)This result give fritz,Hiarcs performance of 2515-280=2245 and this is a more realistic rating for computers in correspondence chess. 2)Do you use computer to help you to avoid tactical mistakes? I think that the fair test is to play with no help against a computer. I believe that you can win most of the games(I believe that every 2400 player who use 1 hour per move can do it) 3)I am surprised by the fact that your opponents use top engines without any understanding what's going on the board. I have a friend with 1600 elo rating who use programs in a more intelligent way and do not trust top programs everywhere. 4)I play in the 3/4 final of the correspondence of Israel. I thought to choose my moves only by a computer program to prove my theory that a computer can go to the final but I also want to be in the final so I changed my mind and I am not going to do this experiment because I do not want to take risks. I think that I am going to choose in more than 80% of the cases the move of the computer but I do not use always the same program I have a game when I decided not to trust my Junior5.9(it suggested a move that I did not like after many hours and I gave it to play a game against hiarcs and hiarcs got a better position so I decided to trust hiarcs in this game(I may change my mind if hiarcs will suggest a bad move). 5)I also did not like Junior5.9's move in another position: r1b2rk1/1pq1bppp/p1nppn2/8/P1BNP3/2N1B3/1PP1QPPP/R4RK1 w - - 0 1 Junior5.9 suggested to play 11.Nxc6 after some hours. I did not like this move and played 11.f4 I do not have a clear plan what to do now but I read in a book that Nxc6 is a typical computer mistake in similar positions. Hiarcs7.32 also likes Nxc6(at least at fast time control because I did not give it many hours). 6)I got the position after 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nc6 5.Nc3 d6 6.Be3 Nf6 7.Bc4 a6 8.Qe2 Qc7 9.a4 Be7 10.0-0 0-0 The first 8 moves was from Junior's original book and I never play this opening so I have no idea how to play it. I decided to ask amir ban for boris alterman's book because I believed it is a better book and he told me that one of the moves was 9.a4 so I decided to play this move. I do not know what comes after 9.a4 because I did not ask Amir about it after I decided to stop help him by telling him about bugs of Junior or giving him games or telling him my ideas to improve Junior(Junior does not use most of my ideas and it is clear that at least most of the changes are not because of me). Do not get the impression that I hate Junior or Amir. The fact that I stop helping Junior does not say it(I do not tell my ideas to many programmers). >17 out of 20. If you play by e-mail, don't trust to your engines. I have MANY >examples when my partners sent me computor's moves and I sent them back my >answers which Fritz or Junior didn't see at all.Use your Fritz or Rebel just to >check your blunders but NEVER trust them. You cannot trust them also about tactics. They cannot see the draw in the position that kasparov resigned but every correspondence player who use programs can see the draw and avoid the mistake of deeper blue to let kasparov to draw from an inferior position. >So, please be realistic. The level of all top engines in correspondence games is >around 2400. >Do you believe me ?! >My best wishes >Anatoli No I think that the level of computers in correspondence chess is between 2200 and 2300 when people say that computers are grandmasters they mean to tournament time control and not to slower games. Uri
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