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Subject: Re: 2 Interesting Positions

Author: Ed Schröder

Date: 03:43:08 11/22/99

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>Posted by Peter McKenzie on November 22, 1999 at 03:11:18:

Hi Peter,

>Greetings,
>Here are a couple of interesting positions to try on your favourite programs.
>
>Positon 1
>The first position comes from the game DarkThought-LambChop at the 1999 >WCCC in
>Paderborn.  Lambchop had an advantage but went astray by allowing a perpetual
>check.  Here is the position:
>
>5k1r/1R2bp1p/2p1pp2/7B/8/8/P1q3PP/6QK w - -
>
>DarkThought, which must have seen the draw several ply earlier, played Rxe7
>which forces the draw (after Kxe7 Qa7+ etc).  I tried this position on Chop,
>which needed a whole 11ply to see that Rxe7 draws.  I mentioned this
>position in channel 64 on ICC, and Bob said that Crafty only needs 6ply.

Same here:

00:00:01  6.00  -0.17   1.Qe3 Rg8 2.Rb8+ Kg7 3.Qg3+ Kh6
                       4.Qe3+ Rg5 5.Bg4 Qxa2 6.Qh3+ Kg7  (1)

00:00:02  6.23  -0.17   1.Rxe7
00:00:02  6.23  0.00   1.Rxe7 Kxe7 2.Qa7+ Kd8 3.Qb8+ Kd7
                       4.Qa7+ Kd6 5.Qd4+ Kc7  (2)

00:00:02  7.00  0.00   1.Rxe7 Kxe7 2.Qa7+ Kd8 3.Qb8+ Kd7
                       4.Qa7+ Kd6 5.Qd4+ Kc7  (2)

>I asked Bob if he was doing any fancy stuff in search to see perpetuals
>faster, but he said he wasn't.  Oh well, maybe I have a bug I thought.  But looking at
>the position, its obvious the drawing line is longer than 6ply.  The black
>king can go to d6,c7,c8,d7,d8: quite a number of squares to walk around.

Solved in Q-search.

>Then it struck me why Crafty saw it so fast.  Anytime the black king got to
>the back rant, Crafty would see Qa8+ followed by Qxh8 winning a rook for white.
>Then it would hit the qsearch (or nullmove and hit the qsearch) where black
>has no good capture.  The difference being that LambChop (which looks at
>checks in the qsearch) would hit the qsearch, and see Qb1+ forces checkmate.

Just extend Q-search one ply more in such cases.

>So here is a position where Crafty very quickly gets the right move and
>evaluation, but for the 'wrong reasons'.  Bob informs me that this is
>called the 'inverse horizon effect' :-)
>
>So how do other programs do on this position?


>Position 2
>This one happened in a blitz game Ferret-LambChop on ICC:
>
>2r1r2k/1p1q1ppp/pn1p1b2/nNp2b2/2PP4/PP2BN2/Q3BPPP/2R1R1K1 w - - 0 18
>
>Ferret played the crushing Nxd6 which works because white has not one but two
>pawn forks coming up.  The main line being:
>Nxd6 Qxd6 dxc5 Rxc5 Bxc5 Qxc5 b4, a 7ply line.  But of course, the normal
>horizon effect kicks in so LambChop will then think Rxe2 Qxe2 helps before
>'realising' the pawn fork is still there.

Rebel Century:

00:00:00  4.00  0.63   1.dxc5 axb5 2.cxb6 bxc4 3.bxc4
00:00:00  4.09  0.94   1.Nxd6 Qxd6 2.dxc5 Rxc5 3.Bxc5 Qxc5
                       4.b4 Rxe2 5.Rxe2  (0)

00:00:00  5.00  1.32   1.Nxd6 Nxb3 2.Qxb3 Qxd6 3.dxc5 Rxc5
                       4.Bxc5 Qxc5  (0)

Some hints: extend (almost) every recapture. On the horizon: extend one
ply if the side to move has an interesting double attack such as a fork.

Ed


>So Lambchop needs 9ply, and around 2min and 1.2M nodes on my P133 to see >this little combination.  A bit slow for my liking!  How does your favourite
>program do??


>In days gone by, I might have seen it faster due to the recapture extension
>but
>these days I try to limit that extension much more so it doesn't help here.
>Other programs might do some static analysis of the pawn fork to see this one
>faster.  I guess you could include that sort of thing in your evaluation, or
>perhaps base some sort of extension on it.  I think GNUChess had some hung
>piece
>code to deal with this sort of thing.  I'd be interested in hearing any
>thoughts
>from fellow programmers on this issue.
>
>cheers,
>Peter




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