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Subject: Re: 2 Interesting Positions

Author: James Robertson

Date: 07:58:25 11/22/99

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On November 22, 1999 at 06:43:08, Ed Schröder wrote:

>>Posted by Peter McKenzie on November 22, 1999 at 03:11:18:
>
>Hi Peter,
>
>>Greetings,
>>Here are a couple of interesting positions to try on your favourite programs.
>>
>>Positon 1
>>The first position comes from the game DarkThought-LambChop at the 1999 >WCCC in
>>Paderborn.  Lambchop had an advantage but went astray by allowing a perpetual
>>check.  Here is the position:
>>
>>5k1r/1R2bp1p/2p1pp2/7B/8/8/P1q3PP/6QK w - -
>>
>>DarkThought, which must have seen the draw several ply earlier, played Rxe7
>>which forces the draw (after Kxe7 Qa7+ etc).  I tried this position on Chop,
>>which needed a whole 11ply to see that Rxe7 draws.  I mentioned this
>>position in channel 64 on ICC, and Bob said that Crafty only needs 6ply.
>
>Same here:
>
>00:00:01  6.00  -0.17   1.Qe3 Rg8 2.Rb8+ Kg7 3.Qg3+ Kh6
>                       4.Qe3+ Rg5 5.Bg4 Qxa2 6.Qh3+ Kg7  (1)
>
>00:00:02  6.23  -0.17   1.Rxe7
>00:00:02  6.23  0.00   1.Rxe7 Kxe7 2.Qa7+ Kd8 3.Qb8+ Kd7
>                       4.Qa7+ Kd6 5.Qd4+ Kc7  (2)
>
>00:00:02  7.00  0.00   1.Rxe7 Kxe7 2.Qa7+ Kd8 3.Qb8+ Kd7
>                       4.Qa7+ Kd6 5.Qd4+ Kc7  (2)
>
>>I asked Bob if he was doing any fancy stuff in search to see perpetuals
>>faster, but he said he wasn't.  Oh well, maybe I have a bug I thought.  But looking at
>>the position, its obvious the drawing line is longer than 6ply.  The black
>>king can go to d6,c7,c8,d7,d8: quite a number of squares to walk around.
>
>Solved in Q-search.
>
>>Then it struck me why Crafty saw it so fast.  Anytime the black king got to
>>the back rant, Crafty would see Qa8+ followed by Qxh8 winning a rook for white.
>>Then it would hit the qsearch (or nullmove and hit the qsearch) where black
>>has no good capture.  The difference being that LambChop (which looks at
>>checks in the qsearch) would hit the qsearch, and see Qb1+ forces checkmate.
>
>Just extend Q-search one ply more in such cases.
>
>>So here is a position where Crafty very quickly gets the right move and
>>evaluation, but for the 'wrong reasons'.  Bob informs me that this is
>>called the 'inverse horizon effect' :-)
>>
>>So how do other programs do on this position?
>
>
>>Position 2
>>This one happened in a blitz game Ferret-LambChop on ICC:
>>
>>2r1r2k/1p1q1ppp/pn1p1b2/nNp2b2/2PP4/PP2BN2/Q3BPPP/2R1R1K1 w - - 0 18
>>
>>Ferret played the crushing Nxd6 which works because white has not one but two
>>pawn forks coming up.  The main line being:
>>Nxd6 Qxd6 dxc5 Rxc5 Bxc5 Qxc5 b4, a 7ply line.  But of course, the normal
>>horizon effect kicks in so LambChop will then think Rxe2 Qxe2 helps before
>>'realising' the pawn fork is still there.
>
>Rebel Century:
>
>00:00:00  4.00  0.63   1.dxc5 axb5 2.cxb6 bxc4 3.bxc4
>00:00:00  4.09  0.94   1.Nxd6 Qxd6 2.dxc5 Rxc5 3.Bxc5 Qxc5
>                       4.b4 Rxe2 5.Rxe2  (0)
>
>00:00:00  5.00  1.32   1.Nxd6 Nxb3 2.Qxb3 Qxd6 3.dxc5 Rxc5
>                       4.Bxc5 Qxc5  (0)
>
>Some hints: extend (almost) every recapture. On the horizon: extend one
>ply if the side to move has an interesting double attack such as a fork.
>
>Ed

How do you detect such double attacks without killing speed?

James

>
>
>>So Lambchop needs 9ply, and around 2min and 1.2M nodes on my P133 to see >this little combination.  A bit slow for my liking!  How does your favourite
>>program do??
>
>
>>In days gone by, I might have seen it faster due to the recapture extension
>>but
>>these days I try to limit that extension much more so it doesn't help here.
>>Other programs might do some static analysis of the pawn fork to see this one
>>faster.  I guess you could include that sort of thing in your evaluation, or
>>perhaps base some sort of extension on it.  I think GNUChess had some hung
>>piece
>>code to deal with this sort of thing.  I'd be interested in hearing any
>>thoughts
>>from fellow programmers on this issue.
>>
>>cheers,
>>Peter



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