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Subject: Re: For those who what to see the difference: " legal", "illegal" moves.

Author: Dave Gomboc

Date: 22:01:40 11/28/99

Go up one level in this thread


On November 28, 1999 at 19:40:18, leonid wrote:

>On November 28, 1999 at 18:36:46, Dave Gomboc wrote:
>
>>On November 28, 1999 at 16:30:46, leonid wrote:
>>
>>>On November 28, 1999 at 15:00:19, Dave Gomboc wrote:
>>>
>>>>On November 28, 1999 at 14:05:01, leonid wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>>For those who spoke about the difference between "legal", "illegal" moves based
>>>>>logic. Question was: What logic will be more rapid? After my trial, legal moves
>>>>>based logic do the best. Difference insignificant and is around 4%.
>>>>>
>>>>>What exactly was changed and where?
>>>>>
>>>>>1) Before only ply zero had illegal moves based logic. All other plys used legal
>>>>>moves logics.
>>>>>
>>>>>2) Were changed three plys over ply zero to see the difference.
>>>>>
>>>>>3) Tryed both logics for speed 8 plys deep, brute force, same positions. No
>>>>>extensions.
>>>>>
>>>>>4) In illegal moves based logic all old alignment procedures are the same.  For
>>>>>instance, procedure that put "checking moves" at the head of moves line. This
>>>>>last procedure is as much big and time consuming, as the procedure that before
>>>>>watched for legality of all moves in a ply.
>>>>>
>>>>>Leonid.
>>>>
>>>>I'm not sure why you would force the checking moves to be searched first.  Use
>>>>your standard sorting order for the moves.  Searching checks first is going to
>>>>be bad, compared with e.g. searching promising captures first.
>>>>
>>>>Dave
>>>
>>>It is not the fantasy setting that I had in my moves alignment. In my usual
>>>logic (only ply zero use illegal moves, all other plys legal) this give big
>>>speed improvement. Don't forget one obvious fact, you must put at the head of
>>>your moves line those that lead to the biggest material advantage ever. And
>>>checking moves do right this. Not all the time, and this is where everything can
>>>be lost in confusion. Only statistics can clean it up to the "final truth" and
>>>offer us its final picture. For me, this was already done.
>>>
>>>Leonid.
>>
>>Lines that lead to the biggest material advantage ever usually contain captures
>>like "knight takes queen", not "queen to h7, check".  If you're solving for
>>checkmates, it might be quite reasonable to search checks first.  But if you're
>>just searching to find the best move, checks are not typically first on the
>>list.
>>
>>Dave
>
>As strange as it can sound to you, this is the truth. This move ordering is the
>best when searching for mate or material advantage. Even if the mate don't
>existe for sure in given position, mate will be calculated repeatedly by your
>logic. When your moves ordering will be right, all the responses will come at
>more expidient pace.
>
>Leonid.

I understand what you are saying.  What I am saying is that the move ordering
will be better if you search good-looking captures before checks.  There are
certain things that vary from program to program, but it is my impression that
this is not one of them.

Dave



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