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Subject: Re: Program weaknesses

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 11:36:50 12/07/99

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On December 07, 1999 at 09:17:07, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:

>On December 06, 1999 at 08:46:09, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On December 06, 1999 at 02:54:30, Harald Faber wrote:
>>
>>>On December 05, 1999 at 22:35:23, Michael Fuhrmann wrote:
>>>
>>>>Bob Hyatt stated in a recent post that all chess programs have "absolutely
>>>>glaring holes." What are the specific weaknesses of some of the top programs.
>>>
>>>In most cases it is their own king safety.
>>
>>
>>That is certainly a big one.
>
>should specify by program though. not all
>gms are the same, not all programs are the same.
>
>>Another is over-rating the attacking chances relative to the opponent's
>>king safety.  IE many programs think that after Bxg3 hxg3 that white's
>>king is very unsafe, when in reality, it is not with a doubled pawn at
>>g3.
>
>Right, this problem is extreme by
>the following programs/systems:
>  - deep thought
>  - deep blue
>  - deepviolet (at the iccserver, softwareversion PII-400 getting 22k nps)
>
>Not even gnuchess is having the f2g2g3 pattern detection as bad implemented
>as the above 3.
>
>>Passed pawns.  Many over-value these, to the point that they will create an
>>advanced one that becomes lost laster.  Others have no clue about the advantage
>
>Yes crafty even says 2 pawns at the third row are worth a rook
>not taking into account the king.

You may not be able to read a bitmap program properly.  Two connected passers
on the 6th are _not_ worth a rook, _unless_ the king is far enough away that
it can't reach either promoting square.  And neither of the pawns can be
blockaded...





>
>Patzer seems giving a pawn at the 6th rank +3.0 or something anyway.
>
>Nimzo is very happy too with passed pawns.
>
>Basically it's tough to detect how well pawns are stopped, i bet all programs
>have to some extend big problems with this as the evaluation is so dependant
>upon just a few terms here. Every term is having a big impact on the evaluation
>of the position.
>
>>of an outside (or distant) passed pawn.  An ancillary point here is that even
>>if a program recognizes a passed pawn as good (outside passed pawn) many don't
>>recognize a 'distant majority' which is essentially the same thing.  I have
>>seen more than one program trade into a K+P vs K+P (multiple p's on both
>>sides) ending that was dead lost, even though they might have been a pawn
>>up or have a more advanced passer.
>
>Right, this might be a problem that will remain long time a problem.
>there are many factors and reevaluations
>to consider before you can apply to such a far
>majority a winning bonus.
>
>>Some value a rook on the 7th too highly, particularly after all the pawns have
>>advanced and the king is centralized.  A rook on the 7th there isn't doing
>>anything, yet more than one program is very happy with it.
>
>a problem in diep is it wants to centralize king in endgame always.
>usual that's good but sometimes...
>
>>Some (including older versions of crafty) value connected passed pawns more
>>valuable than two isolated passed pawns... This is wrong in king and pawn (only)
>>endings...
>>
>>The list goes on and on...
>
>Right, however the biggest problem are closed positions.
>The problem with closed positions is that the rules are sometimes the
>opposite of normal positions.



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