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Subject: Re: Unfriendly computer blitz

Author: Dan Ellwein

Date: 09:10:03 12/08/99

Go up one level in this thread


On December 07, 1999 at 21:21:48, Ricardo Gibert wrote:

>On December 07, 1999 at 20:11:03, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On December 07, 1999 at 18:55:59, Chuck wrote:
>>
>>>On December 07, 1999 at 16:54:15, Ricardo Gibert wrote:
>>>
>>>>On December 07, 1999 at 14:22:19, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On December 07, 1999 at 00:01:08, Ricardo Gibert wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On ICC, I often see computers winning games against strong players by
>>>>>>"unfriendly" means. Consider what happens when the position is dead drawn, >>>but the computer player does not realize this and makes an unending series of
>>>>>>aimless moves that drains the human opponent of time on his clock. It isn't >>>any secret that computers have "faster reflexes". This is boring and inflates >>>the apparent strength of the program.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I propose that computer programs should offer/accept draws when the following
>>>>>>conditions hold:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>1) There have been no pawn moves or captures played by
>>>>>>   either side over the past 10 ply played. Of course
>>>>>>   the 50 move rule counter is perfect for this.
>>>>>
>>>>>This is total nonsense.  I have seen _many_ games where no pawn move or
>>>>>capture was played over a 5 move (10 ply) stretch.  This has _nothing_ to
>>>>>do with the game called "chess".
>>>>
>>>>Please explain why you consider this to be total nonsense. It is clear that >this >is reliable indicator of whether substantive change has taken place on >the >chessboard.
>>>
>>>I'm afraid I have to agree with Ricardo on this issue. It is certainly true that
>>>alot of drawn games are won "inappropriately" by computers. Think for a moment
>>>of such a game (we've all seen them) and how you'd react if you were the human
>>>and some other human were on the other side of the board being so stupid. If it
>>>were I, I'd be upset. I'm sure we'd have words. I don't think it's enough to
>>>give computers the excuse that they can't recognize the draw. Our goal should be
>>>to make them recognize the draw first. And actually, in real tournaments these
>>>days you CAN do something about, you can claim your opponent has insufficient
>>>winning chances. This should be implemented in programs, in some way, and it may
>>>vary considering the program and it's eval. But it should be done, 1st because
>>>it's not really fair or right, but even moreso, because it's really poor
>>>etiquette.
>>>
>>>And as far as the game of chess goes, when I start a game, I expect both myself
>>>and my opponent to obey certain rules of etiquette.
>>
>>
>>And this includes your opponent looking over at the clock and saying "Hmmm...  I
>>have 4 minutes left, my opponent has 15 seconds left, I suppose I ought to offer
>>him a draw..."
>>
>>That's never happened in any fast game _I_ have ever played, on a server or at
>>a club...
>>
>>You get that far behind, you lose...

I agree... chess is not for the faint of heart... for that matter... neither is
life... - PilgrimDan
>
>That's fine. You can add another condition to cover this if you like. It does
>not invalidate the basic idea.



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