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Subject: Re: Do top programs use 64 bit hash signature?

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 06:03:43 12/10/99

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On December 10, 1999 at 00:50:44, Dann Corbit wrote:

>On December 10, 1999 at 00:06:05, blass uri wrote:
>
>>I am interested in this question because I understood that
>>64 bit signature may be counter productive at correspondence time control
>>and I would like programs to avoid mistakes even in 24 hours/move.
>>
>>How much slower are program if you use 96 or 128 bit signature instead of 64 bit
>>signature?
>The problem I see for a big signature is that you will get a smaller number of
>entries.
>Let's imagine some extremes.  Your hash signature is 1K.  You have 4K space for
>hash entries.  That means you have 4 evals you get to store. ;-)
>Now, if you double your hash signature to 2k, you only store 2.  If you double
>it again you only store 1.
>
>So there is a trade off.  If you increase the size of your hash it will reduce
>the number of table entries you can store.  If you decrease the size of your
>hash, it will increase the false matches and increase the probability of error.
>
>So do you want to spend a ton of time flushing old cash entries or do you want a
>lot of bad hits?
>
>The solution for bigger hash signature is to get a bigger memory.  If you have
>512 megs, then you could store a large number of big hash signatures.
>
>So if you want to do correspondence chess, get a zobrist hash that does
>somewhere from 64 to 128 bits on its output.  Then, make a hash table with
>16,000,000 entries at 128 bits or 32 million at 64 bits and it will consume 256
>megs of ram.
>
>So it seems (to me) to be a balancing act.


I don't see the connection between hash signature and table size. I use a 64
bit signature, which means I can use _any_ table size up to 2^64...  I can even
go beyond 2^64 entries by using what is commonly called 'buckets'.  (A bucket is
a set of entries rather than a single entry.  Then I would probe to a specific
bucket.  I would need some way to differentiate between the different positions
that produce the same hash signature for that bucket of course, if I use 2^64
buckets or more..)




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