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Subject: Re: Who Say's GM's don't lose to Low rated Players??

Author: Fernando Villegas

Date: 08:10:29 12/10/99

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On December 10, 1999 at 07:38:04, Sune Larsson wrote:

>On December 09, 1999 at 17:35:24, Fernando Villegas wrote:
>
>>On December 09, 1999 at 04:28:20, Sune Larsson wrote:
>>
>>>On December 08, 1999 at 16:41:24, John Warfield wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> One of the Arguments used by those who advocate that Programs are not GM
>>>>Strength is that Programs lose to 2200 players or less, whereas sopposedly GM's
>>>>don't. I want to debunk this view by presenting this game played at the national
>>>>open where six time U.S Champion Walter Browne gets crushed by a 2070!! Player.
>>>>There are many other such games. Just where people are getting the ideal that
>>>>grandmasters don't lose to lower rated players escapes me completely.
>>>
>>> Very interesting game! I will look closer at it in the evening. A bit busy at
>>> the office right now. Colourful personality this Walter Shawn. Met with him
>>> at a tourney way back in the 70th. Remember we had some good poker with the
>>> Yugoslaves Janosevic and Damjanovic in the evenings, between the rounds.
>>> Think Parma won that tournament. By the way, I see many talented persons
>>> posting here. People that also say that they understand little about chess
>>> and think they play badly. Can't really understand this, if of course you
>>> have given chess some time. Think it's a matter of training. It´s not so
>>> difficult to get a ELO of 2350. These people are not so strong. To become
>>> a strong IM of 2450 you have to work much or have some talent. To become
>>> an "ordinary" GM is more difficult - not to mention advancing to + 2600...
>>> A nice way of learning the game is to play through lots of games. Just for
>>> fun. See what happens and draw some conclusions of your own. Myself I do this
>>> instead of reading alot of newspapers. Thousands of games through the years...
>>> Then, when looking at a game, it's a matter of your eyes - to see and under-
>>> stand what the position is all about. Then it's possible to understand why
>>> in a certain position it´s "impossible" to play h3 - because you see and
>>> feel that the tension in the center is what it's all about - or the importance
>>> of quickly getting your knight to c5. Then you just can't think of moves like
>>> h3. Talking to your pieces is good. "Hallo my little Knight on e2 - just
>>> where would you like to go? Feeling good on this square? Aha, c5 nice "hole"
>>> there - hm the way would be Ne2-c1-b3-c5... And what about my friend the
>>> Bishop g2 just looking on the walls of pawns on e4, d5. And so on.
>>> Nice game chess...
>>>
>>> Sune
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>This is just the kind of reasonning that take us to defeat against computers.
>>Positional considerations about what to do "in general" but not -maybe- looking
>>hard enough to tactic resources hidden in a combinaton between 5 or 10 moves.
>>Once and again I lose games because I expend 95% of my time understanding the
>>position and only 5% looking at what the bloody monster can muster against me.
>>To become a 2300 player is not that easy as you say it is. You need that this 5%
>>expended in tactical calculations be enough accuater and deep. There is where we
>>-lesser players- fail. Problem is that computer does not forgive nothing of the
>>sort. Esentialy chess is -for us- a tactic game where you lose or win on tactic
>>terms. If you never got in yiuth an automatic almost unconciues tactical skill
>>to avoid that, youl will not get it in adulthood. It always will be a non natral
>>effort prone to mistakes at each step. At leas that is my experience. I know
>>more but I commit the same number -or more- tactical mistakes.
>>fernando
>
> Yes, chess is a complex game. Hm, I forgot that tactics came very easy to
> me when I started playing (much too late, I was 15). So without trainer,
> focus was on openings, tactics and active play, heavily influenced by Fischer.
> Never really trained endgames. Deep positional understanding? Not in my games
> anyway. But this was sufficient to reach ELO 2300 in 4-5 years. No big deal.
> So you may be right in "If you never got in youth an automatic almost
> unconscious tactical skill, you will not get it in adulthood." And now, I´m
> more interested in strategy and endgames. Still, if you give 95% of your
> time and energy trying to understand the position and just 5% to tactics I
> can understand your losses... Studied the games of young Radjabov in Wch Youth
> 18 - Ortopesa del Mar. This boy is 12 years old! Just look at his games
> against Kundin and Ghonimy! Playing so strong positional games at this age!
> You really can sense the competent chesstrainer behind him... Of course this
> boy will be a GM. No doubt about that. But also as an adult there are ways
> of improving your chess. For example exercises like clearing the board,
> putting one Knight on h1, closing your eyes and try to visualize the shortest
> way for the Knight to reach a8. Or putting up a position with just a Knight
> and 6-8 pawns for each side and play it out vs Fritz/Hiarcs, etc.
> And having fun...
>
> Sune
>>>
Clearly you and me have different kind of minds. Are you a pro or student in
some hard science perhaps? I tend to believe that there are calculators kind of
minds and there are organic kind of minds. Calculators has a gift for counting
beans in maths or whatever. For them is natural the "I do, he do, then I do",
etc. And then we have organics, tipical in writers and I am one of them. We are
slowers thinkers, not very good at counting; we tend to be good to imagine, to
perceive psy patterns, etc. Our thinhking is verbal, qualitative, not
quantitative. So as a rule writers tend to be louzy chess players. But of course
this is just an example of merely bverbal, qualitative judgement...:-)
Fernando
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>[Event "U.S Open"]
>>>>[Site "U.s "]
>>>>[Date "1999.12.08"]
>>>>[Round "?"]
>>>>[White "GM Walter Brown "]
>>>>[Black "Lawrence Stevens	"]
>>>>[Result "0-1"]
>>>>[WhiteElo "2500"]
>>>>[BlackElo "2046"]
>>>>[ECO "D20"]
>>>>
>>>>1. d4 d5 2. c4 dxc4 3. e4 e5 4. Nf3 Bb4+ 5. Bd2 Bxd2+ 6. Nbxd2 exd4 7.
>>>>Bxc4 c5 8. Rc1 Nc6 9. Bb5 Nge7 10. Rxc5 Bg4 11. Qa4 O-O 12. O-O a6 13.
>>>>Bxc6 Nxc6 14. Rd5 Qf6 15. Re1 Rfd8 16. Qa3 Be6 17. e5 Qe7 18. Rd6 Rd7 19.
>>>>Ne4 Rad8 20. Qc5 Nxe5 21. Rxd7 Nxf3+ 22. gxf3 Qxd7 23. Qg5 Kf8 24. Nc5
>>>>Qe7 25. Qe5 Qd6 26. Nxe6+ Qxe6 27. Qxe6 fxe6 28. Rxe6 d3 29. Re1 d2 30.
>>>>Rd1 Kf7 31. Kf1 Kf6 32. Ke2 Kf5 33. Rg1 d1=Q+ 34. Rxd1 Rxd1 35. Kxd1 Kf4
>>>>36. Ke2 h6 37. h3 g6 38. b3 h5 39. Ke1 Kxf3 40. Kf1 b5 41. Kg1 g5 42. Kf1
>>>>b4 43. Kg1 g4 44. hxg4 Kxg4 45. Kg2 Kf4 0-1



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