Author: Fernando Villegas
Date: 16:07:53 12/10/99
Go up one level in this thread
On December 10, 1999 at 16:07:12, Sune Larsson wrote: >On December 10, 1999 at 11:10:29, Fernando Villegas wrote: > >>On December 10, 1999 at 07:38:04, Sune Larsson wrote: >> >>>On December 09, 1999 at 17:35:24, Fernando Villegas wrote: >>> >>>>On December 09, 1999 at 04:28:20, Sune Larsson wrote: >>>> >>>>>On December 08, 1999 at 16:41:24, John Warfield wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> One of the Arguments used by those who advocate that Programs are not GM >>>>>>Strength is that Programs lose to 2200 players or less, whereas sopposedly GM's >>>>>>don't. I want to debunk this view by presenting this game played at the national >>>>>>open where six time U.S Champion Walter Browne gets crushed by a 2070!! Player. >>>>>>There are many other such games. Just where people are getting the ideal that >>>>>>grandmasters don't lose to lower rated players escapes me completely. >>>>> >>>>> Very interesting game! I will look closer at it in the evening. A bit busy at >>>>> the office right now. Colourful personality this Walter Shawn. Met with him >>>>> at a tourney way back in the 70th. Remember we had some good poker with the >>>>> Yugoslaves Janosevic and Damjanovic in the evenings, between the rounds. >>>>> Think Parma won that tournament. By the way, I see many talented persons >>>>> posting here. People that also say that they understand little about chess >>>>> and think they play badly. Can't really understand this, if of course you >>>>> have given chess some time. Think it's a matter of training. It´s not so >>>>> difficult to get a ELO of 2350. These people are not so strong. To become >>>>> a strong IM of 2450 you have to work much or have some talent. To become >>>>> an "ordinary" GM is more difficult - not to mention advancing to + 2600... >>>>> A nice way of learning the game is to play through lots of games. Just for >>>>> fun. See what happens and draw some conclusions of your own. Myself I do this >>>>> instead of reading alot of newspapers. Thousands of games through the years... >>>>> Then, when looking at a game, it's a matter of your eyes - to see and under- >>>>> stand what the position is all about. Then it's possible to understand why >>>>> in a certain position it´s "impossible" to play h3 - because you see and >>>>> feel that the tension in the center is what it's all about - or the importance >>>>> of quickly getting your knight to c5. Then you just can't think of moves like >>>>> h3. Talking to your pieces is good. "Hallo my little Knight on e2 - just >>>>> where would you like to go? Feeling good on this square? Aha, c5 nice "hole" >>>>> there - hm the way would be Ne2-c1-b3-c5... And what about my friend the >>>>> Bishop g2 just looking on the walls of pawns on e4, d5. And so on. >>>>> Nice game chess... >>>>> >>>>> Sune >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>This is just the kind of reasonning that take us to defeat against computers. >>>>Positional considerations about what to do "in general" but not -maybe- looking >>>>hard enough to tactic resources hidden in a combinaton between 5 or 10 moves. >>>>Once and again I lose games because I expend 95% of my time understanding the >>>>position and only 5% looking at what the bloody monster can muster against me. >>>>To become a 2300 player is not that easy as you say it is. You need that this 5% >>>>expended in tactical calculations be enough accuater and deep. There is where we >>>>-lesser players- fail. Problem is that computer does not forgive nothing of the >>>>sort. Esentialy chess is -for us- a tactic game where you lose or win on tactic >>>>terms. If you never got in yiuth an automatic almost unconciues tactical skill >>>>to avoid that, youl will not get it in adulthood. It always will be a non natral >>>>effort prone to mistakes at each step. At leas that is my experience. I know >>>>more but I commit the same number -or more- tactical mistakes. >>>>fernando >>> >>> Yes, chess is a complex game. Hm, I forgot that tactics came very easy to >>> me when I started playing (much too late, I was 15). So without trainer, >>> focus was on openings, tactics and active play, heavily influenced by Fischer. >>> Never really trained endgames. Deep positional understanding? Not in my games >>> anyway. But this was sufficient to reach ELO 2300 in 4-5 years. No big deal. >>> So you may be right in "If you never got in youth an automatic almost >>> unconscious tactical skill, you will not get it in adulthood." And now, I´m >>> more interested in strategy and endgames. Still, if you give 95% of your >>> time and energy trying to understand the position and just 5% to tactics I >>> can understand your losses... Studied the games of young Radjabov in Wch Youth >>> 18 - Ortopesa del Mar. This boy is 12 years old! Just look at his games >>> against Kundin and Ghonimy! Playing so strong positional games at this age! >>> You really can sense the competent chesstrainer behind him... Of course this >>> boy will be a GM. No doubt about that. But also as an adult there are ways >>> of improving your chess. For example exercises like clearing the board, >>> putting one Knight on h1, closing your eyes and try to visualize the shortest >>> way for the Knight to reach a8. Or putting up a position with just a Knight >>> and 6-8 pawns for each side and play it out vs Fritz/Hiarcs, etc. >>> And having fun... >>> >>> Sune >>>>> >>Clearly you and me have different kind of minds. Are you a pro or student in >>some hard science perhaps? I tend to believe that there are calculators kind of >>minds and there are organic kind of minds. Calculators has a gift for counting >>beans in maths or whatever. For them is natural the "I do, he do, then I do", >>etc. And then we have organics, tipical in writers and I am one of them. We are >>slowers thinkers, not very good at counting; we tend to be good to imagine, to >>perceive psy patterns, etc. Our thinhking is verbal, qualitative, not >>quantitative. So as a rule writers tend to be louzy chess players. But of course >>this is just an example of merely bverbal, qualitative judgement...:-) >>Fernando > > I'm neither this nor that... And I refuse to categorize people your way. > In my profession, I every day see the complexity of human beings. Everyone > has their own thinking, feelings, fears, imagination, dreams, inner world > etc. Was just giving a few hints about chesstraining. And if you are raised > with Evans-Morra-Marshallgambits, trying to let your intuition and fantasy > flow, influenced by the intense style of US Fischer himself - well then you > are far far away from any sort of beancounting... > > Sune >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi Sune: Of course any categorization is artificial, extreme, but they can fulfill the purpose to stablish more or less the limits between which we have intermediate cases, that are the most. I do not say I cannot calculate, neither I say you cannot imagine. Just trying to begin a thread with the interestig field of chess sychology. Respect trainning, serious trainning, in fact my problem is not so much a case of incapacity to perform calculations as lazyness pure and simple.Besides, I like very much to go into un-explored -by me- fields. Each time I am in the openning without knowing which is the best line as has been stablished perhaps a hundred yars ago, I feel delighted when, not knowing, I pick up a good move. "So", I say to myself, "I was capable to reinvent something after all..." Of course next move is a mistake and I pay the price... fernando >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>[Event "U.S Open"] >>>>>>[Site "U.s "] >>>>>>[Date "1999.12.08"] >>>>>>[Round "?"] >>>>>>[White "GM Walter Brown "] >>>>>>[Black "Lawrence Stevens "] >>>>>>[Result "0-1"] >>>>>>[WhiteElo "2500"] >>>>>>[BlackElo "2046"] >>>>>>[ECO "D20"] >>>>>> >>>>>>1. d4 d5 2. c4 dxc4 3. e4 e5 4. Nf3 Bb4+ 5. Bd2 Bxd2+ 6. Nbxd2 exd4 7. >>>>>>Bxc4 c5 8. Rc1 Nc6 9. Bb5 Nge7 10. Rxc5 Bg4 11. Qa4 O-O 12. O-O a6 13. >>>>>>Bxc6 Nxc6 14. Rd5 Qf6 15. Re1 Rfd8 16. Qa3 Be6 17. e5 Qe7 18. Rd6 Rd7 19. >>>>>>Ne4 Rad8 20. Qc5 Nxe5 21. Rxd7 Nxf3+ 22. gxf3 Qxd7 23. Qg5 Kf8 24. Nc5 >>>>>>Qe7 25. Qe5 Qd6 26. Nxe6+ Qxe6 27. Qxe6 fxe6 28. Rxe6 d3 29. Re1 d2 30. >>>>>>Rd1 Kf7 31. Kf1 Kf6 32. Ke2 Kf5 33. Rg1 d1=Q+ 34. Rxd1 Rxd1 35. Kxd1 Kf4 >>>>>>36. Ke2 h6 37. h3 g6 38. b3 h5 39. Ke1 Kxf3 40. Kf1 b5 41. Kg1 g5 42. Kf1 >>>>>>b4 43. Kg1 g4 44. hxg4 Kxg4 45. Kg2 Kf4 0-1
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