Author: Thorsten Czub
Date: 17:09:22 12/19/99
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On December 19, 1999 at 14:53:50, Roger wrote: >No need to overreact, Thorsten. ;) >I wasn't suggesting that you go from one extreme to the other. Between the >extreme of not posting ANY tournament results, and between the extreme of >posting ALL tournament results, lies a middle ground of posting SOME of the >tournament results, those not including CSTAL!!! maybe you have registered that i am posting in at least 2 or three places. so you have your "golden" middle ground. >So much for dualistic thinking. ;) You have been snared on your own words here. >Now that you recognize the middle ground between these two evil dualistic >extremes, feel free to post the tournament results without CSTAL. ;) ;) yo don't get it, he ? evil is something that is not on someones t-shirt, and others have a halo over their heads. these 2 words do only exist in your dualistic mind. you prject them into the world. as you do it with almost any other dualistic word pair. this is because thinking with the left brain part/halve works this way. thinking with the other side works different. it is also logically, but the logic is not aristotelic, is not following the mechanistic-cartsianic rules. it is following another logic. >I don't think CSTAL actually NEEDS a database of old positions to be a good >chess program. As I said, I own the DOS and Windows versions, and I like them. I >accept the proposition that it plays attractive chess. >What I was advocating was a test suite that would SHOW OFF THE GENIUS OF THE >PROGRAM. Obviously, what makes CSTAL brilliant is that it chooses different >moves than other programs. Otherwise, it'd be just another bean counter. In your >experience with the program, you have seen it pull off some really incredible >stuff. what i do is when is see thing like this, i am posting them. the result is that a bunch of idiots claim that i am making propaganda, that i am only posting wins. they do not undrestand that i am posting something that shows different behaviour of a chess-program. i do not collect these positions. because cstal produces them. it is not dead. it is alive and can do this anywhere, against any opponent. even shredder as we have seen. so WHY collecting them ? for the idiots who piss on my posts because they believe i am posting the things of idle reasons ? no - > I was just suggesting that such exemplars of "attractive chess" could be >formed into a test suite that operationalizes what humans expect attractive >chess should be. Given your experience with CSTAL, this should not be difficult. no. but i am no fan of test-suites. i like chess-games, complete games. but whenever you post an example, people claim it is an exception !! its the same with politicians. whenever somebody finds out a politician was corrupt and has taken money, all the others cry: its an exception. although it is the function of a politician to take money and to betray the people and to be corrupt. they believe the sense of a politician is to be for THEM. but in fact the politician has only one target: to make money for himself, to get power for himself. to be idle and the greatest for himself. we have e.g. in the moment an example of this in germany. it shows that one of the longest cancellors in germany, helmut kohl, has many many years (and even before his government time in the flick-scandal) be corrupt, with dark-money for his party, taking money from all kind of industrials. as if this would be an exception. thats how capitalism is working in general. (see bill gates). but people are stupid. they believe a person would do a job for idealistic reason, although he claims to be a good capitalist. but a good capitalist has only one target, to make enough money for himself, to get the most power for himself, to be the strongest and the only monopolist controlling anything. see chessbase or microsoft or scientology. their target is clear. you can see the same targets anywhere in capitalism. but the people really believe these companies would have an idealistic target. so they voted for kohl. unrecognizing that he has taken money, and made anything brilliant for the ones who gave him the money. he was a salesman. politician was only the name of those, who believed in him as a politician. those claimed that he is an exception now. but they are wrong. it is a function of politics, like it is a function of capitalism to produce monopols, corruption and methods. when you see children kill their teachers with guns, than it is not evil, it is a result of the society, of the capitalistic system. it is in fact a function of the system. as long as you don't understand that the evil is only a result of the system you choose, that is exploiting people to give the power and money to a few corrupt people (e.g. cancellor Helmut Kohl), you will claim: it is an exception. its too easy to call the murderers or the corrupt people evil afterwards. when in fact the system is creating those honneckers, kohls and gates or ron hubbards. a society that gives weapons to children, and shows them bloody movies with 100 dead people per hour in any arnold schwarzenegger or mad max or whatever movie, will produce children who kill their teachers and the other kids in the class. its is not the evil in ONE person, as it is not the brilliance in ONE game of cstal. therefore i do not believe producing a test-suite is a method of helping computerchess. in my opinion the only method is to do what other call impossible to do. and chris has done so. in his limited way of course. but he has done. >Roger sorry. maybe we don't get a harmony in this millennium. we can do later. 2001...
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