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Subject: Re: new computer chess effort

Author: Amir Ban

Date: 03:58:26 12/21/99

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On December 20, 1999 at 20:18:55, Greg Lindahl wrote:

>On December 20, 1999 at 19:55:33, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>Remember that there are at _least_ as many that spend less time in the eval
>>than I do.  And that I doubt if anybody is as high as 90%.
>
>I know of one example which spends 90% in eval. And as you know, if eval becomes
>cheaper, it might behoove you to use more of it.
>
>>DB didn't, but belle did, and hitech did, and so forth.
>
>I disagree. You can't prove that no other approach produces a really fast
>engine. It's logically impossible with the data that you have in hand.
>
>> There is no one
>> piece you can pick out and make execute in zero time, and produce any big
>> performance boost.
>
>Other than an engine which spends 90% of its time in eval. They tell me that
>this is a religious issue in the chess world -- how smart of an evaluation
>function to use, how clever you can be picking moves, etc etc. What you're
>asserting is that you know every possible permutation, algorithm, and factor.
>Quite a strong claim. I wish I was that smart in the field that I specialize in.
>

I believe there are engines that take 90% for eval, but I'm pretty sure that no
first-rank engine does. This means that you have 10% left for all the rest, and
you have at least a 5-to-1 handicap in search speed against other engines.
There's no way to successfully compete with this kind of handicap.

Doing the evaluation in h/w will improve this program a lot, and will probably
put it in the top ranks, but that's a poor reason for doing such an effort.
Obviously you are not going to do this project to enable a mediocre engine to be
competitive, but to build something that will have a clear advantage over any
s/w-only approach.

My program takes less than 20% on evaluation, by the way. Another objection to
your eval-only chip is that there are s/w-only methods to drive evaluation costs
way down. They have their problems and drawbacks for sure, but no so much as to
justify a hardware solution.

Amir









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