Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 14:46:45 12/21/99
Go up one level in this thread
On December 21, 1999 at 15:16:08, Michael Fuhrmann wrote:
>On December 21, 1999 at 14:53:35, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On December 21, 1999 at 10:49:45, Michael Fuhrmann wrote:
>>
>>>The following is one of those many games on ICC where a computer forces a drawn
>>>game out to ridiculous lengths, and you end up feeling sorry for the human
>>>opponent who has to make a lengthy series of mindless moves to maintain the
>>>static position and eventually get the draw. Adolf, ahead on time, made several
>>>draw offers, all refused by Sharpshooter (Crafty 17.5). Sharpshooter forced the
>>>game to 177 moves when it was drawn under the 50-move rule.
>>>
>>>I guess I shouldn't feel too sorry for Adolf, because immediately after this
>>>marathon ended he started up a new game with Sharpshooter! Still, it would be a
>>>lot better if computers -- I'm not singling Crafty out here -- accepted draws in
>>>these situations.
>>>
>>>
>>>[Event "ICC 5 3"]
>>>[Site "Internet Chess Club"]
>>>[Date "1999.12.21"]
>>>[Round "-"]
>>>[White "SharpShooter"]
>>>[Black "ADOLF"]
>>>[Result "1/2-1/2"]
>>>[ICCResult "Game drawn by the 50 move rule"]
>>>[WhiteElo "3040"]
>>>[BlackElo "2656"]
>>>[Opening "Scotch: Mieses variation"]
>>>[ECO "C45"]
>>>[NIC "SO.04"]
>>>[Time "10:14:08"]
>>>[TimeControl "300+3"]
>>>
>>>1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 exd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nxc6 bxc6 6. e5 Qe7 7. Qe2 Nd5
>>>8. c4 Nb6 9. Nd2 d5 10. exd6 cxd6 11. b3 Bg4 12. Qxe7+ Bxe7 13. Bd3 O-O 14.
>>>O-O d5 15. cxd5 cxd5 16. Bb2 Bb4 17. Nf3 Bxf3 18. gxf3 Rac8 19. Bf5 Rc6 20.
>>>Rac1 Rxc1 21. Rxc1 g6 22. Bd3 Rc8 23. Rxc8+ Nxc8 24. Ba6 Nb6 25. Bd4 Kf8 26.
>>>Bb7 Ke7 27. Bxb6 axb6 28. Bxd5 f6 29. a4 g5 30. Kg2 h5 31. f4 Kd6 32. Bf7 h4
>>>33. Kf3 Bd2 34. fxg5 fxg5 35. Ke4 Kc5 36. h3 Kb4 37. Kd4 Ka5 38. Kc4 Be1 39.
>>>f3 Bd2 40. Bd5 Be1 41. Bb7 Bd2 42. Bc6 Be1 43. Bd7 Bd2 44. Bb5 Be1 45. Be8
>>>Bd2 46. Bf7 Be1 47. Be6 Bd2 48. Bf5 Be1 49. Bd3 Bd2 50. Bc2 Be1 51. Bb1 Bd2
>>>52. Bg6 Be1 53. Bh7 Bd2 54. Bd3 Be1 55. Bf5 Bd2 56. Be4 Be1 57. Bd5 Bd2 58.
>>>Be6 Be1 59. Bc8 Bd2 60. Bd7 Be1 61. Bc6 Bd2 62. Ba8 Be1 63. Be4 Bd2 64. Bh7
>>>Be1 65. Bc2 Bd2 66. Bd1 Be1 67. Be2 Bd2 68. Kd4 Kb4 69. Bc4 Ka5 70. Ke4 Kb4
>>>71. Bf7 Ka5 72. Kd3 Be1 73. Be6 Kb4 74. Ke2 Bc3 75. Bc4 Ka5 76. Ke3 Be1 77.
>>>f4 gxf4+ 78. Kxf4 Kb4 79. Ke4 Ka5 80. Be6 Kb4 81. Kd4 Ka5 82. Kc4 Bd2 83.
>>>Bd5 Be1 84. Bc6 Bd2 85. Be4 Be1 86. Bd5 Bd2 87. Bc6 Be1 88. Be4 Bd2 89. Bb7
>>>Be1 90. Ba8 Bd2 91. Bh1 Be1 92. Bf3 Bd2 93. Ba8 Be1 94. Bb7 Bd2 95. Bc8 Be1
>>>96. Bg4 Bd2 97. Be6 Be1 98. Bg8 Bd2 99. Bf7 Be1 100. Bg6 Bd2 101. Be8 Be1
>>>102. Bd7 Bd2 103. Bg4 Be1 104. Bf5 Bd2 105. Bd3 Be1 106. Be2 Bd2 107. Bh5
>>>Be1 108. Bd1 Bd2 109. Bc2 Be1 110. Bh7 Bd2 111. Bg6 Be1 112. Bd3 Bd2 113.
>>>Be2 Be1 114. Bf1 Bd2 115. Kd3 Be1 116. Kd4 Kb4 117. Bc4 Bd2 118. Bd5 Be1
>>>119. Ke5 Ka5 120. Ke6 Bd2 121. Kf6 Be1 122. Ke7 Bd2 123. Kd7 Be1 124. Bf3
>>>Bd2 125. Ke6 Be1 126. Bc6 Bd2 127. b4+ Bxb4 128. Kd5 Be1 129. Kc4 Bg3 130.
>>>Bb5 Bf2 131. Bd7 Bg3 132. Kc3 Bf2 133. Kb3 Bg3 134. Bb5 Bf2 135. Be8 Bg3
>>>136. Bf7 Bf2 137. Bc4 Bg3 138. Bd5 Bf2 139. Bf3 Bg3 140. Ba8 Bf2 141. Bg2
>>>Bg3 142. Bb7 Bf2 143. Be4 Bg3 144. Bd3 Bf2 145. Bb5 Bg3 146. Bc4 Bf2 147.
>>>Bd5 Bg3 148. Be4 Bf2 149. Bc6 Bg3 150. Bd7 Bf2 151. Bg4 Bg3 152. Be6 Bf2
>>>153. Bf5 Bg3 154. Bg4 Bf2 155. Be2 Bg3 156. Bf3 Bf2 157. Bh5 Bg3 158. Bd1
>>>Bf2 159. Kc4 Bg3 160. Kd5 Bf2 161. Bc2 Bg3 162. Bb3 Bf2 163. Bd1 Bg3 164.
>>>Kc4 Bf2 165. Bc2 Bg3 166. Bb3 Bf2 167. Kc3 Bg3 168. Kd4 Bf2+ 169. Ke4 Bg3
>>>170. Bc2 Kb4 171. Kd4 Ka5 172. Kc3 Bf2 173. Bb3 Bg3 174. Kd3 Bf2 175. Kc4
>>>Bg3 176. Bc2 Bf2 177. Kd3 Bg3 {Game drawn by the 50 move rule} 1/2-1/2
>>
>>
>>Crafty accepts draws, but only when it thinks that the position is drawn. It
>>doesn't recognize all possible drawn positions, any more than any other program
>>does. It is a known problem. In fact, so far as I know, it is the _only_
>>program that will accept/offer draws automatically at all on the server...
>
>Would something along the lines of what "Mike S." said be a useful starting
>point?
>
>"Maybe programmers could
>>define a condition like "If no advancement (evaluation increase) is made for ten
>>moves, so accept a draw offer". "
>
>I'm not thinking of a perfect draw-detection system, just something that would
>preclude the worst cases like this game, which was drawn to any novice human
>observer (i.e. me) after move 35, or thereabouts, but was dragged on pointlessly
>for another 150 moves.
Not for me. And not even for a GM. I watched Roman play crafty last night in
an opposite colored bishop ending. He tried plan A. Crafty defended. He
retreated and tried plan B, again no success. He backed up again and tried
plan C and won. And by "backed up" I don't mean "took back moves" I mean he
consciously moved the king back to the starting position (or close enough) and
then tried another way of winning.
I have seen Crafty do the same. I consider the game a draw after it can't win
for 50 moves... which fits perfectly with the rules of chess of course..
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