Author: Christophe Theron
Date: 08:53:24 01/04/00
Go up one level in this thread
On January 04, 2000 at 05:35:36, Michael Cummings wrote:
>On January 04, 2000 at 04:07:52, Christophe Theron wrote:
>
>>On January 04, 2000 at 03:28:13, Michael Cummings wrote:
>>
>>>On January 03, 2000 at 21:32:12, Christophe Theron wrote:
>>>
>>>>On January 03, 2000 at 20:39:05, Michael Cummings wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On January 03, 2000 at 10:22:31, Harald Faber wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On January 03, 2000 at 07:48:16, Michael Cummings wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On January 03, 2000 at 04:48:21, Harald Faber wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On January 03, 2000 at 04:19:36, Enrique Irazoqui wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On January 03, 2000 at 03:41:36, Michael Cummings wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On January 03, 2000 at 03:15:29, Ed Schröder wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Bottom line: This Christophe is quite a guy. Coming from nowhere his
>>>>>>>>>>>program enters the list on no.1. When was the last time you did see
>>>>>>>>>>>such an event to happen?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Do you not remember CM6K. Chess Tiger already proved strong in other games
>>>>>>>>>>played for a while now before it made its debute on the SSDF
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I think CM6K made the biggest surprise when it topped the SSDF, and if you look
>>>>>>>>>>at the 200MMX machines still remains No1.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>CM6K is the true KING
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>In the SSDF list CM6K is 1 point ahead of F532 on P200MMX. Tiger is 25 points
>>>>>>>>>ahead of F532 on AMD-450s.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>CM6K is very strong, but Tiger tops the list no matter how you look at it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Enrique
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Mike does not deny it. He just points out that within the 200MMX pool CM6k is
>>>>>>>>the strongest and it might be that if tested on 450MHz it could be no.1 again.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>And +1 or +25 means really NOTHING with the margin of error.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>For me at least within a range of 50 pts the progs are equal strong.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Enrique should know better than to compare program strength like that when
>>>>>>>played on faster hardware.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I have heard many times that programs play better with certain processors. So in
>>>>>>>that case we can already say that CM6K will be better than Fritz on the 450
>>>>>>>machines since it is ahead of the rest on the 200MMX machines.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>How do we know that CM6K playing in a 450 machine will not play like a super GM
>>>>>>>and kill all other programs. We have already seen from games posted on here that
>>>>>>>CM6K has beaten Tiger is a series of games on hardware faster than the SSDF
>>>>>>>200MMX machines.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>But the fact remains and that is all I am stating, that CM6K is No1 on the
>>>>>>>200MMX machines.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>We can repeat it again and again, maybe Enrique understands it someday. ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>One note, has anyone bothered to test tiger on the 200MMX machines to see if the
>>>>>>>program is way ahead of the field, or just performs better on 450 machines.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It was tested on P90 and was ahead of CM5000, but it was the time they changed
>>>>>>to 450MHz so no need to take 200MHz for Tiger.
>>>>>
>>>>>The reason why it would be good to see the results on the 200 machines, would be
>>>>>that Chris and many others think that this program on any machine would is way
>>>>>ahead of the rest.
>>>>>
>>>>>So if it was way ahead on the 200MMX then the result on the 450 machine would be
>>>>>back up better.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I would like to see 200 long time controls games played between Tiger and CM6000
>>>>on P200MMX and I wonder why you don't volunteer to play them yourself.
>>>>
>>>>Then I suppose you might claim that CM6000 is the best program on 300MHz
>>>>computers (which have not been tested by the SSDF, and will never be), and you
>>>>would probably be able to claim this until the end of the times as nobody will
>>>>take the pain to play all these games manually.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Now that the "current" hardware on SSDF is K6-2 450MHz, I suspect they have a
>>>>lot of P200MMX computers available, so I would be very glad if they tested the
>>>>Rebel-Tiger on this platform. Tiger and CM6000 would not meet directly (as
>>>>CM6000 has to be operated manually and they are not willing to do it again), but
>>>>we would see if CM6000 can keep its ranking in the P200MMX list.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Christophe
>>>
>>>I only now have a PII 450 and a PIII 500 computer. Apart from no time and no
>>>tiger program. I am quite sure CM6K would be number 1. Even though this is pure
>>>speculation, my predictions have always been pretty accurate :-)
>>>
>>>CM6K was never tested on a P90, and I think it would have been stronger by 50
>>>points over tiger on that hardware.
>>>
>>>How can I make these statements, as you said, unless someone tests this, we will
>>>never know, so thus my predictions :-)
>>
>>
>>You are making these statements without any basis, especially the one about P90.
>>That would mean that CM6000 is about 150 points stronger than CM5000, and it is
>>definitely NOT.
>>
>>I see you appreciate CM6000 a lot. I would not disagree that it is a good
>>program (I think that nobody here disagrees BTW), but with this kind of
>>statement you are doing nothing good for your favorite program.
>>
>>If only you were more reasonnable in your statements I think your words would
>>have more credit. Until that, I fear that you are unfortunately working against
>>the image of CM6000.
>>
>>
>>
>> Christophe
>
>I think you missed when I made my statements all the :-) which I think is used
>for smiling and humour. My comments were based on your assumption that my
>questions will never be answered, thus I made some predictions as to what those
>answers would be, all in good homour of course.
>
>I also think no matter what comments I did make if I thought my predictions were
>serious, I am in little position to affect it strength and power, which is
>already stated from many games played with the king engine in tournaments and
>with CM6K on the SSDF.
>
>In any point from the small sample of games that have been played between tiger
>and CM6K, the kings engine is just ahead from the results already given. Even
>though this is a very small number of games, it is still enough when compared to
>tigers games against other programs to give an indication that it maybe a close
>call between the two with either program being on top.
Which games are you talking about???
>And lets also remember that Johan has been using an upgraded engine different
>from CM6K in tournemant at the start of last year, which means that we have not
>seen the best king engine yet.
>
>Lets hope CM8K will bring this mighty engine upgrade to once again dominate the
>chess world :-)
Simply having a new engine does not mean that it is stronger.
For example it happened in the past to MChess: Marty rewrote everything from
scratch to make everything cleaner, and for a while the new engine was not
stronger.
And the other programmers keep on working too.
Christophe
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.