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Subject: Re: Genius hash scores

Author: Chessfun

Date: 20:55:58 01/08/00

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On January 08, 2000 at 23:45:09, Christophe Theron wrote:

>On January 08, 2000 at 22:52:28, Chessfun wrote:
>
>>On January 08, 2000 at 21:38:11, Chessfun wrote:
>>
>>>On January 08, 2000 at 18:20:18, Christophe Theron wrote:
>>>
>>>>On January 08, 2000 at 13:20:12, Chessfun wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On January 08, 2000 at 12:17:51, Christophe Theron wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>><snipped>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I see that this position raises very little interest, or maybe top programs are
>>>>>>not able to solve it? Actually I know that Genius5 solves it pretty fast (maybe
>>>>>>faster than Tiger, I'm not sure).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    Christophe
>>>>>
>>>>>To answer the first post. I don't have a favorite program you won't
>>>>>send it to me !!.
>>>>>
>>>>>Genius 5. Takes 3 mins 25 secs on Cel 433 to post a + score for 1. f6.
>>>>>
>>>>>Genius 6. Takes 4 mins 12 secs to post a + score for 1. f6.
>>>>>It looks at 1. f6. for first 44 secs showing - then switches to Kxg2
>>>>>before going back to 1. f6.
>>>>>
>>>>>CM6K default no solve after 12 min 19 secs 42,000,000 nodes.
>>>>>
>>>>>Hiarcs 7.32 Looks at 1. f6. for first up to first 2 mins showing -
>>>>>then switches to Kxg2 before I gave up at depth 15/30 approx 7 mins
>>>>>still showing Kxg2.
>>>>>
>>>>>Fritz 6 No luck after 5 mins 1. Kxg2.
>>>>>
>>>>>I had tried this on other softwares, Tiger is the fastest I have heard.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I did not expect Tiger to be the fastest.
>>>>
>>>>How much hash tables have you used? This position is rather sensitive to the
>>>>amount of hash table (it's natural as it is an endgame with reduced material).
>>>>
>>>Genius 5 used default 4mb
>>>Genius 6 used default 8mb
>>>Hiarcs 7.32 I used 8 mb
>>>Fritz 6 I used 16 mb it eats *HASH*
>>>CM36K set up at 16 mb
>>>
>>>>Actually I have just realized that Tiger solves it faster with 8Mb hash: 39
>>>>seconds with 8Mb, 1m12s with 16Mb, and 28s with 32Mb hash tables (new record?).
>>>>The 16Mb result is an accident, it happens from time to time. Results on a K6-
>>>>450MHz.
>>>
>>>I will try later this evening differing hash amounts.
>>>>
>>>>Genius5 DOS is handicapped as the version I have, which was provided together
>>>>with G5 Windows, cannot use more 384Kb.
>>>>
>>>>I suppose you have tried Genius5 Windows with a decent amount of hash tables?
>>>>
>>>Yes it is Genius 5 windows version hash default is 4096.
>>>>
>>>>    Christophe
>>>Thanks.
>>
>>Cel 433
>>Genius 5. 2kb hash = 1.f6 switches again to Kxg2 after 44 secs then solves
>>1.f6 posting + score after 3 min 48 secs.
>>Genius 5. 4kb hash = 1.f6 switches again to Kxg2 after 40 secs then solves
>>1.f6 posting + score after 3 min 25 secs.
>>Genius 5. 8kb hash = 1.f6 switches again to kxg2 after 1 min 19 secs solves
>>1.f6 posting + score after 4 min 29 secs.
>>Genuis 5. 16kb hash = 1.f6 switches again to kxg2 after 59 secs then solves
>>1.f6 posting + score after 3 min 25 secs.
>
>
>You mean Mb, not Kb, I presume?
Correct.

>
>A very funny thing: Genius has almost the same problem than Tiger: at one point
>increasing the hash table size gives a longer solution time. Then increasing
>further yields again a better result.
>
I noticed that too, yet with Genius that is a little more extreme.
Though I must admit I like these Genius programs I am a little
surprized they didn't do better rating wise.

>
>
>>Genius 6 times are almost identical.
>>
>>The other engines I think it is pointless exercise !.
>>I just try one other engine MCP8 8kb hash = No solve after 18 mins.
>>
>>Tiger posts a + at 28 secs without going back? Genius picks 1. f6 always
>>but not with a + score which is when it switches to Kxg2 before switching back.
>>Trouble comes for Genius at depth 12/24 when it sees Kxg2 as better.
>>2
>>I'll trade yer two Genius's for a Tiger !! LOL.
>>Thanks.
>
>
>Here is the output from the Rebel-Tiger (K6-2 450MHz, 32Mb hash tables):
>
>
>00:00:00.1	4.12	9	60006	a4  bxa3ep  bxa3  Kg3  a4  h5  f6  gxf6  a5
>00:00:00.4	1.12	9	83505	a4  bxa3ep  bxa3  Kg3  c6  dxc6  f6  gxf6  a4  c5
>00:00:00.3	-0.44	10	123820	a4  bxa3ep  bxa3  Kg3  c6  dxc6  dxc6  Kf4  a4  Ke4
>Kxg2  h5
>00:00:01.8	-1.33	11	213308	f6
>00:00:01.5	-1.16	11	263647	f6  gxf6  Kxg2  Kg4  a4  bxa3ep  bxa3  Kf4  a4  Ke4
>a5  Kxd5
>00:00:02.1	-1.15	11	356087	c6
>00:00:02.4	-1.14	11	445570	d6
>00:00:03.7	-0.28	11	478497	d6  cxd6  Kxg2  Kg4  a4  bxa3ep  bxa3  Kxf5  a4  Ke5
>a5  Kd5
>00:00:04.7	-1.17	12	611167	f6
>00:00:04.1	-0.20	12	699197	f6  gxf6  Kxg2  Kg4  a4  bxa3ep  bxa3  Kf4  a4  Ke4
>d6  cxd6  a5
>00:020:05.7	-0.19	12	766013	Kxg2
>00:00:05.3	0.62	12	812882	Kxg2
>00:00:06.4	4.16	12	1006462	Kxg2  Kg5  a4  bxa3ep  bxa3  Kf6  d6  cxd6  a4  dxc5
>a5  c4  Kf3
>00:00:06.0	4.16	13	1006467	Kxg2  Kg5
>00:00:10.5	1.44	14	1609096	Kxg2  Kg5  a4  bxa3ep  bxa3  Kf6  a4  Ke7  a5  Kd8
>a6  Kc8  Kh3  h6  Kg3
>00:00:16.5	1.21	15	2565155	Kxg2  Kg5  a4  bxa3ep  bxa3  Kf6  a4  Ke7  a5  Kd8
>c6  dxc6  dxc6  Kc8
>00:00:27.9	1.22	15	4300739	f6
>00:00:37.3	2.34	15	6108693	f6
>00:00:43.0	2.33	15	6946271	f6  gxf6  Kxg2  Kg4  a4  bxa3ep  bxa3  Kf4  a4  Ke4
>d6  cxd6  c6  dxc6  a5  Kd5
>00:01:14.9	3.23	16	12181241	f6
>00:01:56.7	5.33	16	19201142	f6  gxf6  Kxg2  Kg4  a4  bxa3ep  bxa3  Kf4  a4  Ke4
>d6  cxd6  c6  dxc6  a5  c5  a6
>00:02:29.3	5.33	17	24464726	f6  gxf6  Kxg2  Kg4
>00:042:22.5	5.31	18	43205717	f6  gxf6  Kxg2  Kg5  a4  bxa3ep  bxa3  Kf4  a4  Ke4
>d6  cxd6  c6  dxc6  a5  c5
>00:09:45.2	5.00	19	96545193	f6  gxf6  Kxg2  Kg5  a4  bxa3ep  bxa3  Kf4  a4  Ke5
>d6  cxd6  c6  dxc6  a5  c5  a6  c4  a7  c3
>00:20:04.9	5.00	19	196144774	f6  gxf6  Kxg2  Kg5  a4  bxa3ep  bxa3  Kf4  a4  Ke5
> d6  cxd6  c6  dxc6  a5  c5  a6  c4  a7  c3
>
>
>I know this is not easy to read, but first column is time, second is score,
>third is ply-depth, fourth is number of positions evaluated, and then you have
>the best line.
>
>I have stopped the program exactly after 20 minutes, 4 seconds, 9 tenths. The
>last line just repeats the last best line, as you see.
>
>So Tiger would play f6 very quickly, without knowing exactly why, then it would
>play Kxg2, then sees that this is not as good as expected and would eventually
>play f6 in about 28 seconds without changing his mind in 20 minutes.
>
>
No it is clear enough 27.9 secs, I wouldn't have believed it would be that
fast. So you got to 15 ply in only 4,300,000 positions, funny CM didn't see it I
had that at 43,000,000.
Thanks.

>
>    Christophe



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