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Subject: Re: Chess-Computer comparisation at clubkasparov.com

Author: Bruce Moreland

Date: 16:27:02 01/09/00

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On January 09, 2000 at 18:40:34, Amir Ban wrote:

>On January 09, 2000 at 18:21:53, James Robertson wrote:
>
>>>
>>>Why Shredder ? I read it twice and I haven't got a clue (except that he's your
>>>friend).
>>>
>>>Amir
>>
>>I think Bruce's words were an overstatement; there is nothing specifically
>>against Shredder there.
>>
>>But that fact that it is never mentioned Shredder won the WCCC is telling
>>enough.
>>
>>James
>
>Actually it is mentioned. Both Shredder 2 and Shredder 4 are discussed, with a
>mention of both their world titles.
>
>On the other hand, Hiarcs and Junior, two former world champions, are mentioned
>derisively as Fritz accessories, with no mention of their titles, or anything
>else for that matter. I would have loved to read a protest by Bruce on this
>account.
>
>I think Stefan MK has a fine program, but you have to be pretty biased to read
>here a specific attack on Shredder.
>
>Amir

You are a really tough programmer with a really tough program, and it bothers me
that when my program plays your program I feel like I have less than a 50%
chance to win.  If that comes through, I'm sorry.  I don't know if you think
that I expressed this via my comments about the Kasparov vs IBM thing, but in
that case I argued what I thought was right, and it's not like I'm a big fan of
IBM, after all I believe that I accused them (the company) of wrecking computer
chess.  I just don't think they cheated in the match.

You are right though, Junior and Hiarcs are mentioned as Fritz accessories.

I also overreacted to the comment about Shredder.  I will explain what in the
heck I was talking about.

After the 1996 tournament I heard that Shredder had been subjected to reviews
that essentially stated:  Shredder is weak, it was lucky to win in a diminished
field, don't buy Shredder.  I heard about these second hand because I don't
subscribe to the European computer chess magazines.

At the 1999 Paderborn WCCC I watched as Shredder was seeded 12th, behind some
programs that it had previously beaten individually and finished ahead of in the
standings.  It proceeded to win the tournament on inferior hardware.  At the
time I heard that people were declaring that its high showing was due to "luck"
in the endgame, the implicit points being that 1) this "luck" diminishes the
truth of the result, and 2) a real program should club its opponents to death in
the middlegame, and therefore it is somehow unsporting to draw the game out and
win by a late tactical trick or whatever.

So that's how I took Cock's comment about Shredder's endgame play.  Perhaps I am
reading more into that than I should, so I retract that portion of my comment.
I now claim that the article is merely a hack job on Crafty.

bruce



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