Author: Vincent Diepeveen
Date: 07:15:11 01/18/00
Go up one level in this thread
On January 18, 2000 at 09:33:32, Andreas Stabel wrote: >On January 18, 2000 at 09:24:18, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On January 18, 2000 at 08:36:58, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >> >>>On January 18, 2000 at 07:16:01, blass uri wrote: >>> >>>>On January 18, 2000 at 06:27:06, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>>> >>>>>On January 17, 2000 at 16:08:04, Jeremiah Penery wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On January 17, 2000 at 14:39:35, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On January 17, 2000 at 14:32:28, Dann Corbit wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I see that there are programs that can solve NOLOT #8. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Ferret. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I also understand that that position was shown to be in error. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>No that's a big lie. >>>>>> >>>>>>What are you talking about?? >>>>>>The given analysis _was_ in error. 3. ...gxf6 is not the best move, as you even >>>>>>pointed out. >>>>> >>>>>gxf6 is THE PROBLEM to see for programs. >>>>>if a program doesn't need to consider gxf6 then it finds at say 7 ply >>>>>or something the Bxh7 move. >>>> >>>>It depends on the evaluation function of the program. >>>>I think that I read that deep thought saw that the line with gxf6 is losing but >>>>prefered not to play Bxh7 but play another move with the idea to play Bxh7 in >>>>the next move >>> >>>that is highly unlikely. what we need is: >>> - search output of deep thought in root >>> - search output of deep thought after bxh7 kxh7 qh5 kg8 rd4 bf3 >>> >>>If the last output is better for white at 6 ply for deep thought than >>>the root score then we can talk further. >>> >>> >>> >>>>Uri >> >> >>I believe Bruce posted this already, some while back. And either Hsu or >>Campbell mentioned the same thing. Nothing said they were correct, but that >>the move they suggested (actually the mov DT suggested) might be better because >>it eliminated one tactical resource that made it harder to find. > >I've been digging in some old directories and have come up with the following: >8 ;r3;r;b;k1/;p;p;q2;p;p;p/2;b1;pb2/8/6q1/1p1b3p/p1p2pp1/r2r2k1/40 > >White to move > >8 R * - * R B K * >7 P P Q - * P P P >6 - * B * P b - * >5 * - * - * - * - >4 - * - * - * q * >3 * p * b * - * p >2 p * p * - p p * >1 r - * r * - k - > > a b c d e f g h > >Source: Gufeld-Osnos, USSR 1978. > >The move played was 1. Bh7, but as it turns out 1. Bh7 might not be the >best move. Osnos defended poorly and got slaughtered. With best black >defence, white only maintains a positional edge after 1. Bh7 Kh7 2. Qh5 >Kg8 3. Rd4 Bf3! (with the idea of Qxc2, and then Q to king side to defend >the king). DT-2 prefers to play c4, which threatens Bh7 for real. Bxh7 sure is best move. No questions about it. Bf3 sure is blacks reply to 3d move of white, no questions again about that. HOWEVER, now once deep blue/dt2 doesn't find the best move, and suddenly dudes go argue that Bxh7 is no good? What a weird world! Please play c4 and give me black, and don't cry if you lose with white! Bxh7 is both objectively AND psychological AND from art viewpoint best move. No questions about that. That DT-2 endgame eval *might* be preventing it from finding Bxh7, that's of course interesting to know, but where DT2/DB find a lot of positoins by optimistic open position/king safety eval, there now it is a victim of its own eval. >Regards >Andreas Stabel
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