Author: Lex Loep
Date: 10:16:23 01/18/00
Go up one level in this thread
On January 18, 2000 at 10:00:55, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On January 18, 2000 at 05:18:44, Lex Loep wrote: > >>On January 18, 2000 at 01:31:12, Tina Long wrote: >> >>>On January 17, 2000 at 14:26:12, Lex Loep wrote: >>> >>>>On January 17, 2000 at 12:56:48, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>> >>>>>On January 17, 2000 at 10:24:05, Ernst Walet wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On January 17, 2000 at 10:12:14, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>Someone just pointed out something that I wanted to get some confirmation on >>>>>>>about this interface. Based on what I saw, it seems that this interface is >>>>>>>breaking at least two things in "Crafty" if it is run under chess partner: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>(1) When sending a move to the engine, they first seem to send an "undo" >>>>>>>followed by a "force" followed by the move, followed by "move". This simply >>>>>>>tears up thinking on the opponent's time. Because the undo/force commands >>>>>>>terminate the ponder search in crafty instantly. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>(2) This also totally breaks my book learning, since it is done every move and >>>>>>>crafty never realizes that it is 10 moves out of book, since the position keeps >>>>>>>getting reset. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>If this is true, it is just like the original version of the ChessBase >>>>>>>interface, and means engine vs engine or engine vs operator games are no >>>>>>>good, at least for the engines that are _really_ winboard compatible. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Can anyone confirm this if you have chesspartner 4.2? IE play a few games >>>>>>>using Crafty as one engine (assuming it supports engine vs engine games) or >>>>>>>else play a few moves manually vs crafty in this interface, making sure that >>>>>>>it gets out of book. Then send me the log.nnn file. We don't need a bunch of >>>>>>>tournament results from this interface it if is really behaving like this, as >>>>>>>the games are meaningless... >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>I think I know who told you, as he told me as well. I tested it with the >>>>>>Rebel-Tiger beta and can confirm this happening, alas. >>>>>> >>>>>>Ernst-J. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>If this is true, (a) it is horrible programming and (b) means no matches played >>>>>under chesspartner are worth anything at all. That "trick" wrecks everything I >>>>>do for sure. I assume it is not helpful to others. But in any case, in such >>>>>a match, crafty plays without pondering, will _definitely_ clear the hash >>>>>frequently, and can't learn at all. >>>> >>>>It is true, this 'trick' was necessary to get the GUI features like movelist >>>>navigation, variations, game analysis etc. working kind of reliable. >>>>(a) It is not horrible programming, it works the way it was intended, I just >>>>did not realize it would break crafty. >>>>Problem is the winboard interface was never intended as a computer interface >>>>and has it's short comings, not to mention the variations amongst engines. >>>>Anyway, the winboard adapter is being worked on and this problem will be >>>>fixed soon. >>>> >>>>Lex >>>Hi Lex et. al. >>> >>>I sort of understand this thread & need a little clarification. >>>When My Chess Tiger program arrives: >>> >>>True or False? >>> >>>1) Tiger will play as it should with ponder (& learning?), in ordinary games >>>and Engine v Engine Games. >>> >> >>Absolutely ! >> >> >>>2) Other Winboard Engines will play ok, but not have ponder on opponents time, >>>or learning. So I can use them for playing, but not valid engine-engine >>>competition. >> >>Not al winboard engines are equal, on some ponder may on some it may not work. >>Playing in general would be ok. >> > > >I don't believe any will work correctly. The "engines-intf.txt" document >explains exactly how an engine should behave when it sees a "force" and >other commands. I don't even see how Tiger can ponder assuming you use this >approach to the interface... To send a move to _any_ winboard engine, just >send the move by itself. No force. No back. No "move" command. > Tiger is not a winboard engine ! It works perfect in the CP GUI, with pondering, learning, analyse game, analyse current position as you move through the game, etc. Winboard is ok, as long as all you do is move forward one move at a time. Lex > > >> >>> >>>3) Rebel-Windows Engine (when available) will play as it should like Tiger >>>does. >>> >> >>Absolutely. >> >> >>>4) There will be a free patch correcting 2 available for download sometime >>>soon. >>> >> >>ChessPartner is a evolving product, there are regular free updates. Keep an >>eye on our website or subscribe to our mailing list. >>http://www.lokasoft.nl/uk/downloads.htm >> >>Lex >> >> >> >>> >>>Thank you, >>>Tina Long
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