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Subject: Re: next deep blue

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 07:31:41 01/22/00

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On January 22, 2000 at 06:03:19, blass uri wrote:

>On January 21, 2000 at 15:51:17, Eugene Nalimov wrote:
>
>>On January 21, 2000 at 14:39:18, Tom Kerrigan wrote:
>>
>>>On January 21, 2000 at 14:03:58, Eugene Nalimov wrote:
>>>
>>>>In his IEEE Micro article Hsu estimated his evaluation function as an equivalent
>>>>to ~40,000 general purpose CPU instructions. (Or is the entire procesing of one
>>>>node? In any case, that doesn't matter - all other work can be done in 0.5-2k
>>>>instructions).
>>>
>>>So let's say you have a nice new Pentium III running at 800MHz. If one
>>>instruction takes one clock cycle, that translates to 20000 NPS.
>>>
>>>If each instruction takes 2 clock cycles (an absolute worst-case scenario)
>>>that's still 10000 NPS.
>>>
>>>If you have the world's best evaluation function, I think 10000 NPS should be
>>>enough for a competitive program. And if it isn't, well, the DB program is
>>>already parallel...
>>>
>>>I don't see why FHH doesn't do this.
>>>
>>>-Tom
>>
>>DB search was designed in the assumption that it's *fast*. For 20knps (or even
>>for 100k) it's necessary to rewrite a lot of stuff - e.g. remove singular
>>extensions, add null move (or something other based on "null-move observation"),
>>etc. And in the process Hsu will find that removing slowest parts of the
>>evaluation function will make the program stronger, as nps will go way up.
>>
>>In the end he'll end with one more PC chess program - exactly as Bob did. And
>>first version of the program will be not the strongest one, as speed/knowledge
>>tradeofs will differ wildely from Hsu's instincts.
>>
>>Eugene
>
>He does not have to do it because he does not have to produce the best program
>at tournament time control.
>
>People use programs for corredpondence games so he may sell it if it is really
>better in correspondence games but we need to see a proof that it is better in
>correspondence games.
>
>If he write it and after it do 20 games against the commercial programs at 24
>hours/move(he can do some games at the same time by using more than one pentium)
>and win most of them than people are going to buy it but he first need to prove
>that it is better at 24 hours/move because many people believe that the
>superiority of deeper blue was only because of hardware.
>
>Uri

Your last sentence is the core issue.  It is absolutely true.  But don't forget
that hardware included search _and_ evaluation.



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