Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 07:22:27 01/23/00
Go up one level in this thread
On January 23, 2000 at 06:14:19, Alvaro Polo wrote: >On January 23, 2000 at 02:51:55, Amir Ban wrote: > >>On January 23, 2000 at 01:19:04, Bruce Moreland wrote: >> >>>On January 22, 2000 at 17:47:28, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>> >>>>They were searching about 100K nodes per second, according to Hsu. yes, they >>>>do a lot more in their eval than what they could do if they ran on a PC and >>>>searched 100K nodes per second (this match was in 1995-96 time frame, which >>>>would have been roughly pentium pro 200 level machines for the PC side). But >>>>regardless... if they searched only 100K, and they dominated the commercial >>>>programs as they have been reporting (again, 38-2 was reported) that says that >>>>whatever they are doing is pretty good... as programs like fritz are way over >>>>100K on a P6/200... >>> >>>I think that those matches should be absolutely ignored because they weren't >>>played under controlled conditions, and they weren't played in public. >>> >>>There are enough places that mistakes could have been made, and enough estimates >>>that could be off, that for these data to be accepted upon faith is completely >>>ridiculous. >>> >>>The machine has existed for some time, and has had ample opportunity to display >>>its talents on the internet and in international tournaments. However, we have >>>zero published games between a "full strength" DB Jr and any other program. >>> >>>For all I know it is a wonderful machine. However, if anyone wants me to accept >>>that it is a wonderful machine, it is going to have to come out and play some >>>games, the idea that it should play all of its computer vs computer games behind >>>locked doors and that we should simply accept the results is just bullshit. >>> >>>Sorry. >>> >>>bruce >> >>The results can be disregarded on these grounds of course, but it's also true >>that the results, as reported, can be dismissed as being in contradiction to the >>DB/DT public record, and to common sense in general. >> >>Amir > >I would like to make a question. Let's suppose that DBjr really beat the other >programs 38-2. Lets suppose that that means a supperiority of 400 elo. My >question is, do you believe this 400 elo would be maintained against humans? I >mean, perhaps comp-comp differences become exagerated, and 38-2 against >commercials wouldn't mean over 100-200 elo against humans. Do you believe it >would be possible? > >Alvaro I would guess that "yes, this is possible _and_ probable." He mentioned (as did Murray) that the programs had severe king-safety problems vs the one-chip deep blue machine. And got tactically blown out reasonably quickly. I don't think humans (at least IM/GM players) would get into the same sort of trouble, since they have a much better king safety 'evaluation'... comp vs comp and comp vs human are two different worlds...
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