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Subject: Re: MODERATION: Question for Moderator Candidates on Banning.

Author: James Swafford

Date: 17:15:11 01/25/00

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You raise some good points.  I would be hard pressed to
think of a reason that I would want to ban somebody.  Seems
to me that it's pointless.

If it becomes obvious that a ban is necessary, then there
should be some sort of formal procedure.  Moderators alone,
in my opinion, should not have absolute authority to ban
a member.  Moderators are, after all, only temporary.

Perhaps moderators should have authority to initiate
the "proceedings," but the final authority should rest
with the group.

--
James



On January 25, 2000 at 18:08:27, Roger wrote:

>I would like to formally ask the candidates what their position is on issues of
>banning and temporary suspension, which I raised earlier.
>
>In raising this issue, let me make a few things clear (My apologies for the
>preamble, but the issue seems so sensitive that I feel it necessary):
>
>1. I believe that CCC works well as a moderated board, and I believe it is
>working well now. I do not believe that it should return to the chaos of RGCC,
>and this is NOT an attempt to get us on a slippy slope back down to RGCC.

Good to hear!  I haven't read RGCC in ... hmm... maybe two years?
I'm not sure...

>
>2. The discussion of banning seems to raise bad memories. This is a serious
>issue, not a troll, and I would like to ASK folks NOT to post anything about
>Chris, Rolf, or Sean in this thread. They have been banned, and in my opinion,
>rightly so, and I would NOT want to see them return (if you would, please raise
>it somewhere else). Let's let the past lie and talk about the future. I would
>like only to discuss the mechanism through which banning occurs. I am not
>against banning. I am for it, if it's done right. The issue is, what is right?
>
>3. I do not advocate that every little thing be hammered out through group
>process, but only that banning be a democratic affair, since it is the most
>extreme form of moderation.
>
>4. If someone else has better ideas, let's hear them, since now is the time for
>us to speak.
>
>That said, what I believe is that the moderators should have the authority to
>suspend someone's posting privileges, but that only a group vote should be able
>to ban someone permanently.
>
>Banning is, as I have argued, the functional equivalent of death. With the death
>penality, society effectively says, "we can no longer tolerate your presence."
>Excommunication, and sending someone into exile are also similar. In each case,
>the decision to ban someone permanetly (not just to suspend their ability to
>post) seems so severe that it ought to be done through a democratic vote.
>
>To me, it seems that there are tangible advantages for banning only through
>vote:
>
>1. The group must take responsibility for its actions. Banning someone is
>uncomfortable, but it is something that needs to be done once in a great while,
>and I think we should ALL shoulder the responsibility for it. Yes, it's messy,
>but I think we should never cease to be aware of that, because THE MESSINESS OF
>IT ONLY POINTS TO THE GRAVITY OF THE ISSUE.
>
>2. It takes the heat off the moderators. People who are banned can cry foul in
>other forums, they can say that this moderator or that moderator had it in for
>them, that it was a political maneuver. A democratic vote frees us of this
>possibility, since it is the group that bans, not the moderators.
>
>3. Banning by democratic vote is actually more threatening than being banned by
>the moderators. Someone banned by the moderators can always say they were canned
>for pissing off the wrong person. Someone banned by democratic vote has to live
>with the consensus judgment of his peers.
>
>If the candidates could comment on the above, I would appreciate it. There are
>also two other issues that are connected to banning:
>
>1. I believe that there ought to be a period of suspension before a ban. I think
>that period ought to be left up to the moderators, and that the punishment
>should fit the crime. So a post like "Fuck you" could receive a ban of three
>months, for example. (Bruce having pointed out in a thread below that the
>one-week-the-first-time, two-weeks-the-second time rule is too rigid). That
>allows the rare person to come back and swipe at us, but I think we can take it
>in exchange for doing things according to a standard.
>
>2. Karinsdad said in an earlier thread that banned people sometimes post
>constructively under other names. I do NOT believe they should be able to do
>this. I think that once you're banned, you're banned: The group (or it's
>representatives) have spoken. I don't think a backdoor should exist to undermine
>the will of the group or that of it's representatives.
>
>What say ye, candidates? For? Against? or Don't Care?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Roger



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