Author: James Swafford
Date: 18:34:15 01/27/00
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On January 27, 2000 at 18:01:39, Peter Kappler wrote: >On January 27, 2000 at 13:52:38, Christophe Theron wrote: > >>On January 26, 2000 at 20:06:04, Peter Kappler wrote: >> >>>On January 26, 2000 at 18:23:50, Bruce Moreland wrote: >>> >>>>On January 26, 2000 at 18:10:10, Dann Corbit wrote: >>>> >>>>>IOW, more horsepower is a tough way to make chess programs play better. There >>>>>is also evidence (according to some) that the increase in speed has >>>>>*diminishing* returns. Hence, it may take a terahertz to get there. Don't know >>>>>of any material that could do that, not even a Josephson Junction. >>>> >>>>I think it's a great way. You just take a vacation, preferably a long one, and >>>>when you come back you make one call to Gateway and poof, free Elo points. >>>> >>>>Got an article that shows that the Elo curve flattens out with increased depth? >>>> >>>>bruce >>> >>> >>>Ironically, Dann and I recently debated this very topic. If you use the 7-day >>>filter, you can probably find the discussion under "DBx1000 = how strong?" or >>>"tactical sufficiency threshold". >>> >>>It seems obvious to me that the curve must flatten out with increased depth, but >>>I'd be fascinated to see evidence to the contrary. >>> >>>--Peter >> >> >>I'd be fascinated to see evidence of what you say. >> >> >> Christophe > >Hi Christophe, > >I must admit that seeing you and Bruce on the opposite side of the fence has me >beginning to doubt myself. :-) > >I find this topic particuarly interesting, as I think it says a lot about the >basic nature of chess. My intuition tells me that in most chess positions, a >certain search depth is sufficient to "understand" that position, and avoid any >serious problems. Searching beyond that depth would give diminishing returns. > >It seems like a simple experiment to conduct. Just play lots of self-play games >between an n-ply and n+1 ply search, and after 500 games, increase n. Keep >increasing 'n' Surely these experiments have been conducted. > >If you can point me to any relevant articles, I'd be grateful. I have read the >"Crafty goes deep" article in ICCA, but the results didn't seem conclusive to >me. > >--Peter Hi Pete, Check out http://wwwipd.ira.uka.de/Tichy/DarkThought/node46.html. An interesting quote from Ernst's page: For these search depths the ``Best Change'' rates of both CRAFTY and DARKTHOUGHT stayed range-bound around 16%. As a tentative conclusion we conjecture that the three columns of Table 1.4 taken together provide convincing empirical evidence that the very gradual decreases of the ``Best Change'' rates at high search depths are not only artifacts of specific implementations but rather represent an actually general phenomenon of chess programs which rely on depth-first alpha-beta search with iterative deepening. -- James
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