Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: DB just another program

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 06:47:23 01/30/00

Go up one level in this thread


On January 29, 2000 at 20:26:33, Christophe Theron wrote:

>On January 28, 2000 at 08:51:14, Alvaro Polo wrote:
>
>>On January 27, 2000 at 13:51:01, Christophe Theron wrote:
>>
>>>On January 26, 2000 at 18:28:22, Dann Corbit wrote:
>>>
>>>>On January 26, 2000 at 18:23:50, Bruce Moreland wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On January 26, 2000 at 18:10:10, Dann Corbit wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>IOW, more horsepower is a tough way to make chess programs play better.  There
>>>>>>is also evidence (according to some) that the increase in speed has
>>>>>>*diminishing* returns.  Hence, it may take a terahertz to get there.  Don't know
>>>>>>of any material that could do that, not even a Josephson Junction.
>>>>>
>>>>>I think it's a great way.  You just take a vacation, preferably a long one, and
>>>>>when you come back you make one call to Gateway and poof, free Elo points.
>>>>>
>>>>>Got an article that shows that the Elo curve flattens out with increased depth?
>>>>
>>>>Darn.  I knew someone would ask that!  I just read it somewhere, but I will have
>>>>to go and look for it now.
>>>>:-(
>>>
>>>
>>>Just my 2 cents: this "dimishing returns" theory is an urban legend.
>>>
>>>You are almost certain to have seen this demonstrated, you'll find people that
>>>will tell you they have seen this demonstrated, but you'll eventually find no
>>>proof of this.
>>>
>>>But everybody wants to believe it because it fits so well our common sense. When
>>>everybody in a group believes in something, it eventually because "real" for
>>>this group.
>>>
>>>Computer chess is CROWDED with legends like this one.
>>>
>>>The programmers that do better than their peers are those who do not believe
>>>these legends.
>>>
>>>
>>>    Christophe
>>
>>I have a question for you. Do you believe that the "diminishing return for each
>>extra ply" theory is false for comp-comp only, or also for comp-human?
>>
>>Alvaro
>
>
>I make no difference (well almost) between comp-comp and comp-human.
>
>I don't believe that "dimishing returns" is of any pratical use for us. In
>theory there must be dimishing returns if you can search until the end of the
>game, in pratice it will have no influence on the way we program a computer to
>play chess.
>
>
>    Christophe

I think diminishing returns might be an issue vs humans.  Because obviously
deeper searches never hurt a computer, but they can and do hurt humans, as the
STM memory of the human brain is not infinite in size.  IE I think that as the
computer goes deeper and deeper, it will eventually reach a depth beyond which
the human just can't see.  I don't think we can tell the difference between
outsearching our opponent by 5 plies or 10 plies.  Either is a crushing
advantage.

Against computers, that extra ply will always be worth something.



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.