Author: Vincent Diepeveen
Date: 00:47:48 02/02/00
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On February 01, 2000 at 23:49:04, Eugene Nalimov wrote: >On February 01, 2000 at 20:23:36, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: > >>On February 01, 2000 at 13:40:59, Eugene Nalimov wrote: >> >>>In his lecture at MS Murray Campbell said several words about Nxe6. It was added >>>to DB opening book by GM Benjamin after he found that DB understands position >>>after that move. Unfortunately, I don't remember exact words - either "DB liked >>>the position after Nxe6", or "DB would like to play Nxe6 even by itself". >> >>Nah back in 1997 already there were basically only wins with Nxe6 lines, >>except a fritz3 game i think or something, >>so it was considered bad and all automatic generated books have Nxe6 as >>only playable move there. That's still the case... >>...knowing deep blue always used a big automatic generated book (info >>from Bob this is at least) i doubt whether they needed Benjamin for that. >> >>Deep Blue would not have played Nxe6. Score before is positive for white >>above 0.20, after Nxe6 it is under -0.20 for white. > >I don't see why. For example, DB can have highly asymmetric king safety code >(and please, don't waive your hands in the air without real facts). I remember someone telling the tale of Deep Blue that it had already major scores here. Nah, it's hardly approaching zero there. Last score we see is zero. Next moves it rises slightly (still not near root score before Nxe6). My DIEP is after Nxe6 already positive for white there, so certainly not doing bad. After Bg6 deep blue still sees nothing winning for white, despite the comment of Seirawan: "Deep Blue's operator, Joe Hoane, was so nervous at this point - deep blue's evaluation was strongly in its favour - he shakily started playing 10.Bg6, an illegal move. Another advantage for the computer is that they are not bound by the touch of their operators!" Another typical case of deep blue fairy tales by IBM. Deep Blue didn't have huge scores there. In fact much lower scores than my program has. Only at move 17 after 16..Bc6? deep blue gets more positive and goes over a pawn. At that point DIEP says +2.33 already at 11 ply and more. >Eugene >>First 13 plies to my surprise diep doesn't play Nxe6 either, though >>score is just within hundreds of not playing it i saw some sooner this day. >> >>> >>>Eugene >>> >>>On February 01, 2000 at 08:48:31, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>> >>>>Hello, >>>> >>>>For years i've been wondering why Kasparov played h6?? in the last >>>>game against deep blue. It is for sure that Kasparov knew that h6?? was >>>>a bad line after Nxe6! >>>> >>>>Kasparov has said several things about this game, all crap what he says >>>>in my eyes. Latest explanation of him i heart being said on the internet >>>>was that Kasparov with his excellent memory and as a professional and >>>>young player had forgotten it and hastely played h6 thinking it would be >>>>transposition anyway. >>>> >>>>Now i found that already very unlikely. See here my big surprises when >>>>checkingout the log files of Deep Blue. >>>> >>>>I figured out that Deep Blue had thought already about moves before this! >>>>Even though some moves were from book, the moves Nxe4 and Bd3 especially >>>>there deep blue lost like 6 minutes of time somehow. Kasparov must have >>>>thought deep blue was out of book! >>>> >>>>Some moves that were made quickly by deep blue Kasparov must have thought >>>>there that they were predicted correctly by the computer, which was in fact >>>>true. the move e6 was in fact predicted correctly. >>>> >>>>Now first we can clearly deny that kasparov hastely played h6 by accident. >>>>The log file shows clearly that kasparov has thought nearly 93 seconds about >>>>making h6. >>>> >>>>Now for the average player 93 seconds in opening might mean he just drank >>>>a bit of his tea, but Kasparov who plays theorem always within a second, >>>>has given this position over a minute of thought. >>>> >>>>That can mean only one thing! >>>> >>>>Kasparov OBVIOUSLY knew both lines. He KNEW h6 was bad. He KNEW Bd6 was good. >>>> >>>>He MIGHT have considered deep blue out of book. It is very unlikely that >>>>deep blue would have played Nxe6. The score is -0.20 after the sacrafice >>>>and before that it is about +0.20, so over 0.40 pawn difference between Nxe6. >>>> >>>>Of course Nxe6 was in book. Log file clearly show that. >>>> >>>>Kasparov made Qe7 directly. Within 20 seconds. If Kasparov had forgotten >>>>the Nxe6 line he would have been in shock for at least quite some time. >>>> >>>>Kasparov was not. So kasparov WILLINGLY risked the Nxe6 line. He very likely >>>>must have thought in that 1 and a half minute before deciding to move h6 >>>>about that he already had a chance that deep blue would NOT capture at e6, >>>>after which black is fine. If deep blue WOULD capture, nah then kasparov was >>>>a piece up, like in previous games deep blue might simply allow queen exchange >>>>after which kasparov was a piece up and would win chanceless. >>>> >>>>Let's not call Kasparov too many words, but he sure was arrogant underestimating >>>>the computer in an open position. He sure was ignorant about the aggressive >>>>tuning of deep blue and he sure was naive risking Nxe6 and not even blinking >>>>when the program played it. >>>> >>>>Vincent
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