Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: Magical holy null-move

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 05:34:25 02/04/00

Go up one level in this thread


On February 04, 2000 at 07:02:41, Ulrich Tuerke wrote:

>On February 04, 2000 at 06:18:04, Frederic Friedel wrote:
>
>>On February 04, 2000 at 05:33:53, Georg Langrath wrote:
>>
>>>About this position. Fritz 5.32 can't find this mate in three. Fritz 6 can find
>>>it in time mode, but not in analyze mode. In my opinion that is an ugly bug.
>>>
>>>Then somebody says that it is a null-move problem. Then no more with that. When
>>>it is a null-move problem is seems as it is acceptable in the world of
>>>chesscomputers and no more to add. In my opinion it is still very ugly that a
>>>modern chesscomputer can't find a mate in three.
>>>
>>>I think that it is done before, but can somebody explain this mystical null-move
>>>so also an amateur understands? I think it is some kind of holy magic power that
>>>you must not heckle.
>>
>>Null move is a pruning technique based on the assumption that in certain parts
>>of the search you can ignore moves that threaten nothing. This gives you great
>>speed-ups because the program doesn't spend inordinate amounts of time checking
>>really silly lines. But it does lead to blindness in some zugzwang positions.
>>99% of these are studies or artificial problem positions. I can't remember
>>encountering a fatal zugzwang in a normal tournament game (though I'm sure CCC
>>forum members will immediately supply examples).
>>
>>In order to solve positions like the one you gave you must switch off
>>"Selectivity" (click the engine or press F3 to do so). That effectively switches
>>off the null-move pruning. Remember to switch it back on afterwards. Here is the
>>log of the search with selectivity=0. The mate is found in 00:00:00 after a
>>four-ply search (six-ply extensions).
>>
>
>Frederic, I should strongly suggest the program itself to switch off null move
>as soon as either side has only one minor piece or less.
>
>Regards, Uli
>>


or just turn it off close to the root if one side has a rook or less, which
works wonders for me.



>
>>New position
>>[D]3n4/8/pppN4/k7/2P5/1K6/P7/8 w - - 0 1
>>
>>Analysis by Fritz 6:
>>
>>1.c5
>>  µ  (-1.34)   depth: 1/3   00:00:00
>>1.c5
>>  µ  (-1.34)   depth: 1/3   00:00:00
>>1.a3
>>  µ  (-1.09)   depth: 1/3   00:00:00
>>1.a3
>>  ³  (-0.66)   depth: 1/3   00:00:00
>>1.a3 c5
>>  ³  (-0.66)   depth: 2/4   00:00:00
>>1.c5
>>  ³  (-0.59)   depth: 2/5   00:00:00
>>1.c5 b5
>>  ³  (-0.41)   depth: 2/5   00:00:00
>>1.c5 b5 2.a3
>>  ³  (-0.44)   depth: 3/5   00:00:00
>>1.c5!
>>  +-  (3.19)   depth: 4/6   00:00:00
>>1.c5! b5 2.a3 Ne6
>>  +-  (#3)     depth: 4/6   00:00:00
>>
>>(Friedel, Hamburg 04.02.2000)



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.