Author: Thorsten Czub
Date: 18:49:34 02/07/00
Go up one level in this thread
On February 07, 2000 at 21:09:47, KarinsDad wrote: >Hi Thorsten, >I had a long message that I spent about 30 minutes on and Karin came over and >hit the Escape key. Does anyone know how to recover what you typed after that is >done in IE? stupid computers... >In any case, the bottom line of what I said is that I think there is a double >standard for you between content and personal stuff, regardless of your denials >in your previous message. >When you know it is Chris, I have never seen an unfriendly word (or even a >disagreement for that matter) from you to him. When you did not know it was >Chris (when it was Herman Hesse), you were so venomous to him that many of those >posts were deleted. sound very natural to me. as i said: even when somebody is my best friend, it can happen that i do attack him like hell. depends on the topic. of course i am a human beeing, and social-stuff does influence me too. if chris would threaten another computerchess-company or magazin with a law suit he would get hottest answers from me. look - i do even have very hot arguments with my girl friend, but thats the normal thing. therefore, especially therefore it is important that the argument, the hot discussions or the points are NOT personal. it's about life. if somebody is not discussing or arguing, it's not anymore alive. of course i have friends i do argue more and others i do argue less. i do have a friend called uli. often when we "discuss" on telephone or when we do computerchess, or watch an event or wherever we meet and others are near us they believe we kill us. we have very heavy arguments. but this is what i am used to. he is a teacher and teachers and other dictators are my favourite opponents. but he is one of my best friends. and i have met them via computerchess. he read about me in a magazin, and one day gave me a call. bernd e.g. cannot stand to see us discuss this way. he says we are killing each other with words. and bernd is a strong chess player. i thought he is used to battles. i like this. philosophy is one of my favourite topics. and it lives from having different point of views. but it is not about killing people. it's not about world-wars. philosophy is about different ideas about how anything works. and i am used to this. > I even recall him posting things such as "I did not mean to >offend or insult you. I respect you a lot." (since he knew it was you and did >not mean to antagonize you) and you blasted him in response (the phrase that >comes to mind is that "you treated him like dirt"). :-))) so i really like him :-))) but what's the problem, are we still friends ? so what ? how can it be than ? because different point of views has nothing to do with beeing friends or not. >This means that you do differentiate betweens friends and others, and you do >treat them differently. of course i do treat friends different than not friends. anybody does this, or. what i said was: i do differenciate between points and persons ! and if one of my friends is e.g. scientologist i would fight him all my life. but not him. his ideas. >Not based on content, but on who they are and your >impression of them, regardless of what you say. look, if one of my friends or my enemies does something i call immoral, i make a line. and when he steps over the line, he will get my reaction. but the opponent is a human beeing. i do not hate him for what he is. only for what he does. hatred is an ill feeling. you hate somebody when you are not in balance. when you are in danger. hatred shows you: you are wrong. in the moment you understood about the points, you get better and there is no hatred anymore. and than you see the human-beeing again in the other guy. so if you would take anything personal, and would hate anybody who is against you, really, you would be permanent ill ! you would be unable to live ! therefore when jesus said you shall love your enemy, he just wanted to help you to get healthy. this life is about information. as long as you exchange information, with friends or with enemies, you love and you live. prejudices are NOT exchanging. conservatism. all the values that say: let anything the way it is. don't change. this is against life. against love. so if somebody has prejudices, but does not tell anybody, he will never change his prejudices! therefore speak out your prejudices. discuss about them. exchange ideas and information. discuss with your enemy. language is the vehicle to exchange information. exchanging means learning. and exchanging information is the reason all the universe has been done. we are big machines. and the only target we have is to exchange and to collect information. and why ? because it makes us wiser. if we have double-morals, and do NOT tell the other about what we think, if you smile at him and wish him death because you hate him, than you will not be able to learn. you will not change your prejudices. you will not love and be healthy but you will hatred, get paranoid and be unhealthy. Is written in the bible: love your enemy and you get wise. because if you love enemy, you exchange information, you talk and discuss. if you hate him, you do not talk, you do not exchange information, only you hate him. >And I do not mind you defending a friend. We need more of that in this world. >But, defending abusive actions from a friend seems like a mis-service to him. which abusive actions do you mean i have not criticized ? >JMO. I do not wish to get into a "fight" over it. word fights are important. people fighting in words will not kill themselves in real life. only if creatures have stopped discussing with each other, they will shoot each other. only if kids have not learned to use words, they will use weapons instead. word has much power. it was designed to discuss about. prejudice is not the problem, but not talking about prejudices. beeing different is not the problem but not talking about beeing different. >KarinsDad :) > >PS. I agree that a lot of programmers here fight for no good reason. I sometimes >do not understand it. yes . we should change this. we have words to express. we don't need to kill each other anymore. programmers can kill themselves on the chess board. but should have a drink together in peace and in a social group, sitting arround and sharing good moments. that was always the best from those events like paris, paderborn and aegon. that we shared the company of others. and learned by talking with each other. about their culture. their ideas. their programs. this was it. this was the reason i have done it. if this dies out, i get lost and have to replace computerchess with another vehicle to behave social. i guess most of us want the same. i always wonder why we fight so much, although we only want to be accepted by friends, other group members. this is the computerchess world. this is ours. we only have to accept it. all the others want the same.
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